--- Log opened Fri Jul 05 00:00:13 2013
09:24 < adam3us> see any limitations preventing a zerocoin only alt-coin and either-or mining and p2p exchange-less trading of zerocoin for bitcoin ? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=175156.msg2660475#msg2660475
--- Log closed Fri Jul 05 12:41:40 2013
--- Log opened Fri Jul 05 12:42:36 2013
12:42 !pratchett.freenode.net [freenode-info] if you're at a conference and other people are having trouble connecting, please mention it to staff: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#gettinghelp
14:32 < amiller_> what is this p2p exchange-less trading conce[pt
14:32 < amiller_> why does anyone think that works?
14:33 < amiller_> TD says "The chain-trade algorithm can be integrated to make trading bitcoins for altcoins easy and decentralised." and that's nuts
14:41 < adam3us> i am not 100% convinced the various proposals work, but there is quite a bit in wiki about crypto fair (atomic) exchanges
14:41 < adam3us> so agree a price and do a fair exchange for a coin on one chain for coins on another
14:50 < amiller_> that's no where near sufficient, there's race conditions between two chains that aren't at all addressed by the crypto fair exchange
14:50 < amiller_> also the efficient fair exchange algorithms rely on a central third party judge which is not really an option
14:59 < amiller_> still i think it's possible just it's more complicated than anyone seems willing to talk about
14:59 < amiller_> the solution is to have each chain be able to validate work in the other chain
15:00 < gmaxwell> "Hi, we've solve the problem of your scheme needing insanely long signatures by adding an altchain we can bind to using insanely long signatures"
15:01 < gmaxwell> er solved*
15:02 < amiller_> basically the transaction on chain A is canceled if chain A appears to pull ahead of chain B by some number of blocks
15:06 < amiller_> so it's possible for the transaction to be completed on B but canceled on A, but only if A is put under attack
15:07 < amiller_> so in other words it's exactly as hard to steal someone's coins by exploiting race conditions in an exchange as it would be to doublespend them directly
15:13 < amiller_> this is basically what sergio damien-lerner proposed, he called id P2PTradeX https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=91843
--- Log closed Sat Jul 06 00:00:14 2013