--- Log opened Sat Jul 27 00:00:26 2013
00:43 < zooko`> !
10:47 < jgarzik> IRC daemon skeleton now understands channels and PMs.  What a crappy protocol, IRC.
10:47 < jgarzik> I knew this before, but am freshly reminded.
10:50 < gmaxwell> amiller: Right, I'm just pointing out that using SCIP you can seperate the computation and trust elements of remote oracles. Including the grandson case!
10:51 < gmaxwell> amiller: e.g. if your prior oracle protocol would have been "make a SSL connection to the social security administration and check to see if it says hes dead" you can do that computation under SCIP  and show it to the oracle.  (* well excepting the fact that SSL blows goats)
10:52 < gmaxwell> (*ssl's goat blowing means that you'd actually need to ask the oracle to make the connection, return back a signed copy of the data, then do your HTML processing on that, and return the recept)
10:53 < gmaxwell> In anycase, the notion there being that if the oracle only executes a simple set of procedures, and validates a SCIP proof, it means that it's a lot easier to have confidence that the oracle itself isn't vulnerable.
10:53 < gmaxwell> vs sending arbritary code to the oracle.
10:54 < gmaxwell> It's not exactly the same, since you can't compute on data which is secret to you. On the other hand you can compute on data which is secret to the oracle.
10:55 < gmaxwell> Which may have benefits:  making an oracle super trustworthy is somewhat incompatible with the oracle being immune to censorship. So being able to hide from the oracle what exactly you're doing with it may be productive.
11:53 < HM> jgarzik, IRC protocol isn't that bad. Just lacks modern standardisation, half the networks in existence go beyond the standard
11:56 < HM> Hmm wow, '93. the RFC is newer than I would have guessed :P
14:12 < midnightmagic> irc isn't that bad. it's managed to survive all this time, and in part because the protocol is simple..
14:46 < jgarzik> petertodd, It is still completely useless and uninteresting at the moment, but, https://github.com/jgarzik/dirc
14:46 < jgarzik> still hammering out some empty-channel and echo-echo bugs, but people can connect, create channels, and talk to each other
14:47 < jgarzik> locally
14:47 < jgarzik> zero P2P
14:48  * jgarzik took a shortcut, and auto-generated a bunch of stuff from the RFC text
14:57 < jgarzik> bitcoin-like P2P connections can actually be plugged in rather easily, by re-using the existing node.js bitcoin networking code, which is already quite flexible and programmable.
14:59 < jgarzik> so the steps are: local, single node IRC server -> insecure multi-node via P2P flood-fill -> P2P flood-fill w/ digital signatures/SINs
17:30 < midnightmagic> jgarzik: out of curiosity, why are you starting from scratch?
17:31 < midnightmagic> not that i think you shouldn't, but i'm curious
17:47 < jgarzik> midnightmagic, I hate every ircd implementation I see ;p
17:48 < jgarzik> midnightmagic, it's also fun [re]learning, and nice having the low level IRC code arranged in a manner suited to this P2P/IRC proxying experiment
18:21 < Luke-Jr> jgarzik: it would be nice IMO if there was abstraction so XMPP MUC can be added later ;)
18:25 < jgarzik> Luke-Jr, *puke*  :)
18:26 < Luke-Jr> "?
18:26 < Luke-Jr> you dislike XMPP? >_<
18:26 < jgarzik> Luke-Jr, XML and XMPP are dinosaurs best forgotten, along with SOAP and the rest
18:26 < Luke-Jr> maybe, but nobody has replaced them yet.
18:26 < jgarzik> Luke-Jr, but yes, this will be platform agnostic.  IRC is just an app on top of a base layer.
18:27 < jgarzik> Luke-Jr, replace "IRC:" prefix with "XMPP:" and you're off and running
18:27 < jgarzik> on the p2p side
18:42 < midnightmagic> XMPP is the devil.
19:53 < Luke-Jr> :<
20:21 < HM> XML isn't pleasant to work with
20:21 < HM> but i'd take it over some of the alternatives in some scenarios
20:22 < HM> XML tooling was and is still excellent. validation, transformation etc
20:22  * HM sighs
20:30 < Luke-Jr> I don't like XML much, but XMPP sure beats the alternatives :/
22:06 < midnightmagic> :)
--- Log closed Sun Jul 28 00:00:28 2013