--- Log opened Wed Oct 02 00:00:35 2013
12:44 < HM3> Silk road guy should have invested in determistic wallets.
12:44 < HM3> ho ho ho
13:12 < gmaxwell> hm?
13:13 < gmaxwell> HM3: why do you say that?
13:32 < sipa> HM3: you incremented!
13:34 < jgarzik> heh
14:30 < HM3> Indeed
14:32 < HM3> gmaxwell, i mean hierarchical wallets
14:32 < HM3> meant*
14:34 < sipa> HM3: why do you say that?
14:34 < HM3> Well it would have given him an opportunity to release keys so people can unlock their money
14:34 < HM3> the Feds likely have all the keys at this point
14:35 < HM3> If he was a pirate he'd have dumped the source code to the site and enough cryptographic info for people to reclaim their funds (and only their funds). It's all very sloppy.
14:38 < HM3> SR gave users the option to register an address where they would receive their funds in the event of a shutdown, it seems ideal scenario for a script of some kind
14:38 < HM3> Chances are all the users will get screwed all the same
14:53 < gmaxwell> it sounds like their systems have been compromised for a long time.
15:07 < midnightmagic> I wonder who "FriendlyChemist" was and what data he actually has.
15:28 < HM3> It wouldn't surprise me if none of the messages were encrypted
15:28 < HM3> people exchange a lot of addresses
15:28 < HM3> probably a lot of secondary busts gonna go down
15:29 < jgarzik> Prediction:  MtGox US-side funds will be unlocked within 12 months
15:30 < HM3> yeah, good thinking
15:30 < jgarzik> (yes, this is on topic...)
15:53 < Luke-Jr> jgarzik: any reason?
15:54 < Luke-Jr> does that include withdrawl to US accounts?
15:54 < jgarzik> Luke-Jr, yes
15:54  * jgarzik has no inside info, just supposition based on close reading of public posts and documents
16:15 < jgarzik> In the SR indictment, it is the first time that bitcoin mixers were explicitly linked to money laundering charges, I think.
16:15 < jgarzik> or a "tumbler" as they call it
16:18 < Luke-Jr> kinda annoying to hear SR has been spamming us with "tumbling"
16:19 < sipa> what's tumbling?
16:20 < bizoro> I wonder what the US/FBI will do with the btc they have now, maybe solve the crisis...
16:20 < jgarzik> sipa, mixing
16:21 < gmaxwell> the complaints says that they were running transactions through a series of steps in order to conceal their origin.
16:22 < Luke-Jr> bizoro: huh?
16:22 < gmaxwell> e.g. A -> B -> C -> D -> E -> F   and b,c,d,e are the same person in reality.
16:22 < bizoro> Luke-Jr, the FBI seized some btc...
16:22 < bizoro> not a lot I think =P
16:22 < Luke-Jr> bizoro: what crisis? how would it solve anything?
16:22 < Luke-Jr> more than I have at least, IIRC
16:23 < bizoro> I mean, pay some public eployees
16:24 < bizoro> anyway... you know how they got to the SR guy, was it tor's fault or he tried to sell the btc?!
16:25 < sipa> he posted a question on stackoverflow, under his real name
16:25 < bizoro> lol... no way
16:25 < sipa> this one: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/15445285/how-can-i-connect-to-a-tor-hidden-service-using-curl-in-php
16:26 < sipa> but changed his username shortly afterwards
16:26 < jgarzik> According to the Silk Road wiki, Silk Road's tumbler "sends all payments through a complex, semi-random series of dummy transactions, making it nearly impossible to link your payment with any coins leacving the site."  [...]
16:27 < jgarzik> "Based on my training and experience, the only function served by such 'tumblers' is to assist with the laundering of criminal proceeds"
16:27 < jgarzik> gmaxwell, ^
16:27 < sipa> "leacving" ?
16:27 < bizoro> everytime they block services like this, it gets stronger
16:28 < jgarzik> I was transcribing at high speed from PDF manually
16:28 < sipa> pl
16:28 < sipa> ok
16:28 < jgarzik> *leaving
16:28 < gmaxwell> he prefaced everything with that.
16:28 < gmaxwell> :P
16:28 < gmaxwell> Apparently having a captca before you get access to a site == criminality. (doh)
16:29 < sipa> heh?
16:29 < sipa> also, why is this wizards material?
16:31 < gmaxwell> because it's certantly not bitcoin-dev material! :P
16:31 < jgarzik> lol, pretty much
16:31 < jgarzik> #bitcoin-low-noise-but-OT-for-dev
16:32  * sipa suggests: #bitcoin
16:33 < jgarzik> too craptacular
16:33 < gmaxwell> currently flooded by druggies trying to get their coins back. :P
16:33 < jgarzik> mixing is an interesting nexus of tech and social and legal
16:33 < jgarzik> and economic
17:30 < HM3> apparently he bought the site from the previous owner. so the technical side is probably not all his work
17:31 < HM3> I do believe the entire piratebay infrastructure is open source these days
17:32 < HM3> it's a shame we won't get the same chance with SR, although I don't suppose the Bitcoin side of things was terribly interesting
17:33 < gmaxwell> HM3: where does that come from?
17:34 < HM3> where does what come from?
17:34 < gmaxwell> "he bought the site from the previous owner"
17:34 < HM3> apparently he isn't the first DPR. he did an interview with the mainstream media some time ago
17:40 < BlueMatt> he claims he isnt, the fbi disagrees, so....
17:40 < BlueMatt> afaict
17:43 < HM3> I just think it's ironic he protected his customers by paying bribes and organising hits (if the court complaint is true), but not through technical means like exploiting the capabilities of the coin
17:43 < HM3> well, protected his income
17:43 < gmaxwell> that all sounded really weird.
17:44 < gmaxwell> there were a couple things in the complaint that I think were outright untrue. god knows.
17:45 < HM3> I guess using scripts in the blockchain for escrow or failsafes would make identifying SR transactions too easy
17:48 < sipa> gmaxwell: such as? i only looked briefly
17:49 < gmaxwell> sipa: e.g. it claims (on page 10) that the site had a section for listing hitmen. they was some low essay about how violence was wrong and how they wouldn't list weapons and such. I've checked with a couple people and as far as I can tell it just isn't true.
17:53 < HM3> Well even if the hitman thing is bollocks, they have his emails supposedly of him organising a hit
17:53 < HM3> I think than in itself is a crime if you go so far as to make payment
17:58 < gmaxwell> I think it will be impossible to prosecute him on that.
17:58 < gmaxwell> He asked the _victim_ for referral. They'd have to argue that he was both a moron _and_ a criminal mastermind.
17:59 < gmaxwell> I assume he'll argue that he knew that the other person was also the blackmailer.
18:00 < HM3> So much drama in the webcurrency
18:04 < Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: he paid the blackmailer off more than he asked?
18:04 < Luke-Jr> actually, less I guess
18:04 < gmaxwell> a lot less.
18:04 < Luke-Jr> I'd think they'd at least TRY?
18:06 < gmaxwell> they'll no doubt add it to the list of charges that they'll go after him with if he doesn't plead guilty.
18:07 < Luke-Jr> eh
18:07 < Luke-Jr> if they don't charge him upfront, won't his lawyer tell him "they don't think they can prove that, so ignore it"?
18:08 < Luke-Jr> I guess the harm in doing that is, they can't prosecute later if they find more evidence
18:08 < Luke-Jr> but Canada could :P
18:08 < Luke-Jr> actually, I wonder if the US *can* prosecute a MFH in Canada? :o
18:09 < midnightmagic> sorry "MFH"?
18:09 < Luke-Jr> Murder For Hire
18:10 < gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: nah, standard procedure in federal cases is that they initially charge you with a couple things, and then if you fight the charges they can add more... and they will literally add 100 more charges.
18:10 < Luke-Jr> midnightmagic: DPR paid $150k to have someone killed who threatened to leak names
18:10 < Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: but to omit MFH? that'd be like the biggest charge, no?
18:10 < Luke-Jr> I sure hope drug conspiracy is nothing compared to MFH
18:11 < gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: if someone had been killed it would have been, ... but can they even provide any evidence that they didn't just make the whole thing up?
18:12 < gmaxwell> I suspect that in general that may be part of the challenge here... what physical evidence will exist that shows that this guy was the right guy?  Not just persusaive evidence but "beyond a reasonable doubt"
18:12 < Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: the evidence *against* it seems to assume it took place at the victim's residence..
18:12 < Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: surely his PC has the private key for SSH?
18:12 < Luke-Jr> if not code
18:12 < gmaxwell> Maybe! I guess we'll find out.
18:13 < Luke-Jr> otoh, if they arrested him earlier than planned, maybe he got wind of investigation and deleted stuff
18:14 < gmaxwell> I can go create a forum account with "Luke Jr." as my name and then go posting some stuff advertising some online drug market place.  e.g. how would you distinguish DPR being this guy from DPR being _me_ and me deciding to frame this guy?  I think that only evidence found during the arrest could help them there.
18:14 < Luke-Jr> hmm
18:16 < Luke-Jr> where'd his income come from? ;)
18:16 < Luke-Jr> if he was framed, he'd have to have some other income
18:16 < Luke-Jr> it didn't sound like he did
18:16 < gmaxwell> right. But it also didn't sound like he was living it up either.
18:17 < Luke-Jr> of course not, that'd be beyond foolish
18:17 < Luke-Jr> if I were doing something crazy like that, I'd be saving up for a cruise ship to move out of the US
18:17 < Luke-Jr> :p
18:17 < gmaxwell> hah, as if everything else wasn't?  I mean, as I normally say about criminals: not generally people who are making great life decisions.
18:17 < gmaxwell> (like ... wtf was he doing still in the US?)
18:18 < Luke-Jr> everything else was merely foolish
18:18 < Luke-Jr> living it up would be *Beyond* foolish
18:18 < Luke-Jr> you think he'd really fare much better under another jurisdiction?
18:19 < gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: I think there are a lot of other people where no one would care or would just simply have a hard time finding him
18:19 < Luke-Jr> so maybe he really *was* saving up for a cruise ship :P
18:19 < gmaxwell> hah
18:19 < midnightmagic> Luke-Jr: Yeah but he asked to be contacted by the drug suppliers *through the one that was blackmailing him.* I personally would find that pretty laughable, unless one or both of them were just idiots who thought the other was also an idiot.
18:20 < gmaxwell> idiots pretending to be non-idiots pretending to be idiots pretending to be non-idiots?
18:20 < Luke-Jr> midnightmagic: I'm no druggie, but I think I'd have done the same XD
18:21 < gmaxwell> or were they non-idiots pretending to be idiots pretending to be non-idiots pretending to be idiots pretending to be non-idiots?
18:21 < gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: seemed really weird from the messages. Like.. uh. isn't it protocol when asking for someone to kill someone that you first might politely ask if they knew someone who could handle it instead of just offering money?
18:22 < midnightmagic> It could have been just meant as a scare-tactic.
18:22 < gmaxwell> Yea, I think thats the case, honestly.
18:22 < gmaxwell> Unless there is some hidden law of drug dealers that all of them are also hitmen?
18:22 < gmaxwell> :P
18:23 < sipa> Luke-Jr: seeling drugs on SR i'd consider merely foolish
18:23 < midnightmagic> A scare-tactic would match the endless diatribal philosophy rants he would go on, and he was basically just some student in a $1000/month apartment in SF.
18:23 < midnightmagic> what the heck kind of craphole can $1000/month even buy in SF?
18:23 < sipa> running SR is already far beyond foolish :)
18:23 < gmaxwell> midnightmagic: a room in a craphole mostly.
18:23 < midnightmagic> lol
18:24 < sipa> midnightmagic: you mean rent, i hope?
18:24 < midnightmagic> sipa: rent, right.
18:24 < gmaxwell> I assume that its what it looked like to me: the blackmailer contacted DPR pretending to be his supplier, DPR saw through that (duh) and to scare the blackmailer he went straight into offering money to have him killed.
18:24 < gmaxwell> ::shrugs::
18:24 < HM3> SR apparently collected $80M in commission
18:24 < gmaxwell> HM3: at current bitcoin prices.
18:24 < HM3> yeah
18:24 < midnightmagic> blackmailer can't take that lightly, takes the lesser money (DPR actually negotiated a cheaper price than the original $250k which was half of the blackmailed money)
18:25 < gmaxwell> "and then he burried the private keys in seven 50gallon drums in the desert!"
18:25 < midnightmagic> +1 walter white reference
18:25 < midnightmagic> that nicholas weaver guy is pretty clever.
18:25 < gmaxwell> oh oh oh
18:25 < gmaxwell> If figured it all out
18:26 < gmaxwell> SR = government honey pot. They needed a plausable excuse to take it offline while the goverment was shut down.
18:26 < gmaxwell> :P
18:26 < midnightmagic> except this: https://twitter.com/NCWeaver/status/385428494361956352
18:27 < midnightmagic> :-( Mr. Weaver misses the possibility the browser is *already owned* prior to the view-source.
18:27 < gmaxwell> torify curl http://...
18:28 < midnightmagic> He suggested show-source to Brian Krebs rather than torify'd curl.
18:30 < HM3> why would they serve exploits on a site they've already conquered?
18:30 < HM3> if you're visiting SR it's probably because you have an account
18:30 < HM3> i bought a few items on silk road, nothing actually illegal though.
18:31 < HM3> I'm not worried
18:31  * HM3 buries his laptop
18:37 < gmaxwell> HM3: they served exploits on every site hosted on freedom hosting, including a bunch of totally innocuous sites.
18:38 < HM3> I don't think SR was on freedom hosting?
18:38 < HM3> and it was still a JS exploit.
18:39 < HM3> two big tor busts though in a few months
18:39 < gmaxwell> I was just responding to your "why would"
18:41 < K1773R> if this person only would have used not a single unencrypted wallet... well, such ppl deserve it...
18:41 < midnightmagic> HM3: actually, they got an image back in June, which coincides somewhat with the freedomhosting bust.
18:41 < jgarzik> DPR's opsec was so poor, it was an unintentional honeypot for a long time, I think
18:41 < HM3> Yeah, bit different though. With freedom hosting they were are consumers of illegal content. I doubt they'll go after many SR buyers unless they're worth police/Fed time
18:41 < jgarzik> buyers were also reselling
18:41 < HM3> maybe yeah
18:42 < HM3> Sellers though don't give out their addresses via the messaging system
18:42 < gmaxwell> HM3: they put that stuff up on lots of sites that were just boring stuff with nothing illegal... and generic services like tormail.
18:42 < HM3> lazy httpd config?
18:42  * midnightmagic is not going to call DPR's opsec shitty.
18:43 < HM3> midnightmagic, do you think he was somehow encrypting user->user messages?
18:43 < jgarzik> I mean reselling in the real world, using SR as a wholesaler.
18:43 < midnightmagic> jgarzik/HM3: No, I'm just not so sure most security researchers doing so wouldn't be just as caught if they were doing the same thing. :(
18:44 < HM3> jgarzik, ah, but the evidence for that would be light on SR itself
18:44 < midnightmagic> HM3: No, not at all. Perhaps as far back as his interview where he claimed he was not the first DPR he already knew he was caught and just waiting for the hammer to drop.
18:45 < jgarzik> midnightmagic, according to the indictment, he got forged passports and such shipped to where he lived, hacked in a near-constant locale near where he lived, publicly used his own email addresses a few times, ...
18:45 < jgarzik> either poor opsec or didn't care about being caught
18:45 < HM3> forged passports? intent to flee?
18:45 < midnightmagic> jgarzik: I don't think it's possible to be perfect. There's always info leaking.
18:46 < jgarzik> the indictment made it sound like he was using the forged docs to rent servers
18:46 < HM3> he should have used them to flee :P
18:46 < K1773R> midnightmagic: using public name and public email if you create a stack overflow question is just retarded, tough he edited it, he thougd after editing it would be gone... just idiots
18:47 < jgarzik> indeed
18:47 < K1773R> midnightmagic: ie related to SR
18:47 < gmaxwell> the SO question didn't really sound implicating at all.
18:47 < jgarzik> midnightmagic, Satoshi clearly thought through his entire identity
18:47 < K1773R> gmaxwell: dosnt matter, its a trail to follow. it would just take longer
18:47 < jgarzik> You must work really hard to bootstrap a truly anon id
18:47 < gmaxwell> "how do I use curl to access a hidden service" is hardly a smoking gun, except maybe in retrospect.
18:47 < gmaxwell> K1773R: no, it's not. there is as much trail for anyone else. Its just more supporting data.
18:47 < HM3> jgarzik, are you saying there aren't records like IP addresses somewhere that could reveal satoshi?
18:48 < gmaxwell> jgarzik: it's really really hard, and even satoshi didn't do it perfectly.
18:48 < K1773R> gmaxwell: i agree, finding out its him with jsut that questions isnt possible, but it can be used afterwards (as we see)
18:48 < jgarzik> gmaxwell, that's the difficulty with opsec…  with the Wayback Machine and such, hindsight / time reversal is everpresent
18:48 < gmaxwell> jgarzik: sure sure. But absent the other leaks that one probably wouldn't have mattered.
18:48 < jgarzik> nod
18:49 < jgarzik> it's the drip drip drip of tiny info leaks that lead Encyclopedia Brown to the source
18:49 < midnightmagic> K1773R: We are all idiots to someone.
18:49 < K1773R> midnightmagic: ACK, its relative :)
18:50 < HM3> they confirmed Rowlings book by analysing her writings.
18:50 < K1773R> anyway, hoping to see lower price for BTC to aquire more :P im out, n8!
18:50 < HM3> that was super cool
18:51 < HM3> little things like whether you punctuate on IRC and the frequency of your lols add a bit to your unique identity hash ;)
18:51 < midnightmagic> jgarzik: I'd be willing to bet that the early break-ins in the forum, plus sourceforge accesses, plus other things probably together yielded enough information to locate at least a real IP for satoshi.
18:52 < HM3> I would have thought he would have come forward by now tbh, or at least started a new project
18:52 < jgarzik> SR was probably one of the more successful San Fran startups ;p
18:53 < HM3> if you haven't cashed in on the glory then it suggests to me you're already cashing in in another way, or you are actually still involved in dev work
18:53 < jgarzik> midnightmagic, I think he's smarter than that, but you never know
18:54 < midnightmagic> HM3: that's pretty cynical of human nature.
18:54 < HM3> kind of
18:54 < jgarzik> HM3, sure, fingerprinting one's writing is nothing new.  That's why nutter criminals in past decades would paste together letters, hoping to fool handwriting analysis
18:54 < jgarzik> now computers and stats take it to a whole new leve
18:54 < jgarzik> *level
18:54 < HM3> I mean, i wouldn't walk away from a successful project like Bitcoin unless i was working on something else, or completely sick of it.
18:55 < HM3> Just saying "Yep, done that" and then retiring seems odd
18:55 < gmaxwell> it's very easy to be sick of bitcoin.
18:55 < midnightmagic> HM3: I would say Grigori Perelman embodies a certain spirit of a lot of the more interesting humans who probably wouldn't want money to pollute themselves with.
18:55 < jgarzik> I think statistics (data mining) and data storage growth, more than any government agency, will be the death of privacy.
18:56 < HM3> and if I were sick of it, i'd milk the glory to bootstrap other aspects of my life (work or play)
18:56 < midnightmagic> jgarzik: There are some excellent talks at..  28c3 I think.. with textual fingerprinting and analysiss, and open-source tools anybody can use. Very impressive to see what academics think is the state-of-the-art.
18:56 < jgarzik> Far beyond that -- statistics can read your mind ;p
18:57 < gmaxwell> indeed.
18:57 < HM3> i'm going to 30C3 this year
18:57 < midnightmagic> equally impressive is their assertion that newbs who know their text is being analyzed can fool the tools without any training.
18:57 < jgarzik> I read about an image recognition demo.  Once you trained the model w/ a subject inside fMRI machine, the models were able to guess what the subject was visualizing
18:57 < jgarzik> you don't have to know how the brain works at all, to apply statistics
18:58 < HM3> jgarzik, but only things that have already been trained, surely
18:58 < jgarzik> computers are just too damned good at pattern matching
18:58 < jgarzik> HM3, today.. correct
18:58 < HM3> then I'll be dead before they get through my tinfoil house
18:59 < gmaxwell> people are good at pattern matching.. but each computer is like having a million kinda dumb people working on your problem. They really do change the power dynamics.
19:01 < HM3> reminds me of this computerphile video, where the guy reasons that useful AI is putting a pretty dumb machine in a carefully controlled environment, not making smart AIs to cope with complex environments
19:02 < HM3> like captcha processing. throwing a neural network at it works really well after a stack of bespoke preprocessing
19:02 < HM3> here we go  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcoa7OMAmRk
19:06 < jgarzik> "How DPR Got Caught", summarized from the criminal complaint: https://medium.com/p/d48995e8eb5a
19:06 < jgarzik> (nothing that hasn't already been said here… just a useful summary)
19:07 < gmaxwell> jgarzik: notice the gap on 2? how'd they get the siezed webserver?
19:08 < HM3> 1.5 is seizing his email account
19:08 < HM3> what kind of private VPN keeps logs :S
19:09 < jgarzik> what percentage of VPNs are really honeypots...
19:09 < gmaxwell> HM3: what kind of underground drug markets keep logs?
19:10 < HM3> well messages need to be kept until they're read
19:10 < jgarzik> gmaxwell, definitely some handwaving in the complaint, glossing over compromise of the servers in some foreign country
19:10 < HM3> when you buy something on silk road the process involves messaging through the site, to give the seller your address, and get updates etc.
19:10 < gmaxwell> HM3: yea, but there are a bunch of extra logs apparently!
19:10 < HM3> yep. should have had the rack rigged with thermite :P
19:11 < jgarzik> IIUC, Tor has around 7000 relays.  It seems well within existing technology and the ability of the NSA -- known to monitor the Internet at junctions all over the globe -- to observe all 7000 relays, and figure out which set of relays "bursts" during a observed Silk Road visits.
19:12 < HM3> jgarzik, you could be an optimist and say the intermediate steps are omitted because they're routine and don't actually add to the evidence
19:12 < jgarzik> and it seems doable to classify a node a "busy"
19:12 < jgarzik> pick up enough of these strands, and you can probably locate a popular Tor hidden service
19:14 < HM3> that's like tracing bitcoin transactions to IPs by making as many connections as you can, or tracing Bittorrent DHT queries by running a load of nodes in the DHT
19:16 < gmaxwell> HM3: I've heard from people running ISPs that they have had people trying to purchase IP space in a large number of /8s in order to do bittorrent dht poisoning.
19:16 < HM3> the protocol, like most of bittorrent, was fairly rushed
19:26 < midnightmagic> gmaxwell: A friend of mine was already doing that for TimeWarner, as of perhaps 10 years ago. I haven't personally witnessed him doing that, but he's getting a paycheque and lives in.. Japan right now I think.
19:45  * HM3 debates porting some parsing code written in Boost xpressive to Boost Spirit X3
20:48 < gmaxwell> great... bitcointalk hacked.
21:01 < midnightmagic> jesus
21:01 < midnightmagic> smf is way holier than i thought
21:12 < Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: really? :o
21:12  * Luke-Jr is uncertain if that is good or bad
21:14 < gmaxwell> and defaced by some moron
21:14 < Luke-Jr> who might be stealing cookies to run against the real site?
21:22 < HM3> How frequently is it hacked?
21:22 < HM3> Seems like a bad day for the largest bitcoin forum to go down
21:22 < HM3> Conspiracy ;P
21:23 < gmaxwell> it's been similarly defaced once before.
21:46 < jgarzik> The "murder for hire" was indeed a sting, 100% fake: http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/crime/blog/bal-silk-road-owner-ross-william-ulbricht-allegedly-tried-to-arrange-witness-murder-in-md-20131002,0,5476223.story
21:46 < Luke-Jr> jgarzik: both?
21:47 < jgarzik> $80k
21:47 < Luke-Jr> "rivals" - huh? blackmail isn't rival :P
21:54 < gmaxwell> jgarzik: holy @#$#@
21:54 < gmaxwell> that is actually about the 80k hit!
21:54 < gmaxwell> Their chats took a turn when one of Ulbricht's employees got arrested in January after one of their arranged transactions. Authorities say Ulbricht worried that the employee would blow his cover and asked the undercover agent to have him killed.
21:54 < gmaxwell> Ulbricht said he had “never killed a man or had one killed before, but it is the right move in this case,” an agent wrote in court papers.
21:54 < gmaxwell> The agent led Ulbricht to believe that the killing had been carried out, including sending staged photos of the employee being tortured, and on March 1 Ulbricht wired $80,000 from an account in Australia to an account controlled by authorities.
21:56 < jgarzik> $80k first one staged, $150-300k second one not staged [by LEA]
21:57 < gmaxwell> yea.  crazy. well so much about my idea that the 150k one was DPR just intentionally playing along with the blackmailer to scare him off..
21:57 < gmaxwell> the fact that he really did think he had someone killed previously drastically lowers my probablity assessment of that.
22:01 < HM3> dumb question
22:01 < HM3> since it's 3AM
22:02 < HM3> S1 xor P1 = S2 xor P2
22:02 < HM3> if you know S1 and S2, xoring them together = P1 xor P2, right?
22:04 < HM3> yeah duh
22:04 < HM3> Christ, time for bed
--- Log closed Thu Oct 03 00:00:37 2013