--- Log opened Thu Dec 12 00:00:49 2013
07:47 < nsh> bit into a discussion in #bitcoin regarding whether or not it would be possible to spoof p2pool mining with a centralized (e.g. miner cluster) resource, in some hypothetical case where p2pool mining was better rewarded to incentivize decentralization
07:47 < nsh> i thought initially you could demontrate the sharechain of p2pool and that would guard against spoofing, but now i'm not sure it couldn't be simulated with minimal overhear
07:47 < nsh> *overhead
07:48 < nsh> thoughts?
07:49  * nsh considers reading some papers on collusion resistence models
07:51 < nsh> i suspect they all require some kind of fine-grained synchrony or something equally tricky
12:54 < andytoshi> i haven't read past the abstract and authors, but this is probably an interesting paper
12:54 < andytoshi> http://arxiv.org/abs/1312.3230
12:54 < andytoshi> "how to deal with malleability in the current bitcoin system"
12:57 < nsh> what's malleability?
12:58 < sipa> being able to modify a transaction, without knowing the private key, and without invalidating it
12:58 < andytoshi> nsh: any part of the transaction which is hashed but not signed, you can change (even after signing) to get a valid transaction
12:59 < nsh> oh
12:59 < andytoshi> and this messes up a lot of the contract stuff, since you're supposed to have chains of unconfirmed transactions
12:59 < nsh> yeah, that could be a problem
12:59 < andytoshi> and changing a hash breaks the chain
13:00 < andytoshi> nice, the paper's only 6 pages
13:03  * maaku cringes every time he sees "BitCoin" in an academic paper
13:03  * TD used to write it like that
13:04 < MoALTz> maaku: why?
13:04 < maaku> Bitcoin is not camel-case
13:05 < MoALTz> maaku: could be worse. could have scrapped blockexplorer for the blockchain info.
13:05 < maaku> Journalists I forgive.. at least they're writing about Bitcoin
13:05 < maaku> But someone who is purportedly researching the core bitcoin protocol should know better
13:05 < maaku> heh, that's true
13:06 < andytoshi> i think it may be deliberate, to express their out-of-touch-ness with the real world
13:06 < maaku> "BitCoin is a chain of linked HTML5 documents...."
13:06 < andytoshi> "read our paper, we're all in the same ivory tower"
13:08 < MoALTz> when i skimmed over the zerocoin paper i noticed that they had a careless mistake (saying that 1 BTC is 10^9 satoshis)
13:19 < sipa> maaku: blockexplorer.com was HTML5? :o
13:19 < maaku> heh, true
13:21 < nsh> maybe we can delegate bitcoin security to timbl's html drm working group in future versions
13:36 < TD> haha
13:41 < Emcy> is timbl really his hacker name?
13:41 < Emcy> its pretty good
13:43 < France> (apparently, at some point i group "France" to my nick on freenode then completely forgot about it)
14:08 < gmaxwell> http://www.ssi.gouv.fr/en/the-anssi/events/revocation-of-an-igc-a-branch-808.html < I wonder why they didn't disclose whos certificates they made.
14:09 < gmaxwell> Anyone know if it's public?  (I know at least some of what they made certs for but I'm not sure if I was supposted to repeat it)
14:09 < gmaxwell> oh googling reveals that it is public.
14:09 < gmaxwell> They minted google certs. http://googleonlinesecurity.blogspot.de/2013/12/further-improving-digital-certificate.html?m=1
14:13 < TD> presumably they minted many certs and it's just that google detected it
14:13 < TD> whereas others didn't
14:24 < nsh> aye, google only caught it because of their cert pinning in chrome
14:24 < nsh> i suspect they were mitming * for some govt employees somewhere
14:43 < gmaxwell> Tehe: "Open source: the software is still terrible but now it is your fault too."
14:49 < nsh> :)
14:52 < sipa> well... we do reply with "file a bug report" or "fixes welcome" when people complain :)
16:54 < BlueMatt> ;;seen TD
16:54 < BlueMatt> nanotube: where is gribble when you need it?
16:55 < BlueMatt> yay, manual gribble
16:55 < BlueMatt> what timezone is 12:59, though
16:55 < gmaxwell> Pacific.
16:55 < gmaxwell> (because I IRC from a host in Oregon)
16:55 < nanotube> there he is. :)
16:56 < gmaxwell> and because people other than me have a crazy practice of setting up hosts with timezones other than utc.
16:56 < sipa> iirc, TD is in pacific timezone as well :)
16:57 < gmaxwell> I saw him on saturday.
16:57 < BlueMatt> sipa: yes, hence why he should be awake and irc-ing (what else would he be doing?) :p
16:57 < gmaxwell> so did BlueMatt
16:57 < sipa> ha, cool
16:58 < sipa> i'm syncing from scratch on leveldb 1.15
16:58 < sipa> it's horrible, so many orphans and duplicate blocks
16:59 < sipa> i think i'm downloading every block 5 times, and keeping hundreds in RAM...
16:59 < BlueMatt> bitcoind's sync algorithm is soooo good...
16:59 < gmaxwell> what changed? it wasn't _that_ bad before. Is this just due to increased blocksize?  IIRC I only found a 2x (I think? do you remember?) overhead.
17:06 < sipa> gmaxwell: not an actual measurement, just impression
17:07 < sipa> also, i'm only at block 213000
17:45 < Emcy> so you get orphan warnings while downloading deeply buried blocks because the block downloading code is a bit silly?
17:46 < MoALTz> i found 31 orphans in my blk*.dat files
17:48 < Luke-Jr> someone I spoke with recently was looking for 2009-era stale block.. anyone got any? :P
17:48 < Luke-Jr> MoALTz: you mean stale, not orphan. orphan blocks never get written to risk
17:48 < Luke-Jr> to disk*
17:49 < MoALTz> ah yes
17:49 < MoALTz> although i did look out for true orphans in my code too (although there were none, as those lists were empty after i loaded the files)
17:50 < Emcy> whats a stale block?
17:53 < Luke-Jr> Emcy: one that didn't get accepted in the main chain, long-term
17:53 < BlueMatt> Emcy: #bitcoin
17:56 < Emcy> dont bitcoin me
17:56 < Emcy> ive just never once heard of a stale block
17:57 < Luke-Jr> Emcy: it's what happens when a miner finds a block, but the block is lost due to a race
--- Log closed Fri Dec 13 00:00:51 2013