02:14:11wallet421:wallet421 is now known as wallet42
02:41:45mr_burde_:mr_burde_ is now known as mr_burdell_
02:42:54mr_burdell_:mr_burdell_ is now known as mr_burdell
17:39:23sendak.freenode.net:topic is: Bitcoin research, hardfork wishlist, ideas for the future - see also: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Hardfork_Wishlist https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/User:Gmaxwell/alt_ideas
17:39:23sendak.freenode.net:Users on #bitcoin-wizards: andytoshi-logbot Graet roidster ielo HM jcrubino tacotime_ justanotheruser orperelman _ingsoc wallet42 spinza rdymac midnightmagic go1111111 hnz wangbus a5m0 gribble nanotube andytoshi MoALTz jtimon shesek ghtdak harrow K1773R hno @ChanServ typex Fistful_of_Coins Mikalv tucenaber trn gmaxwell sipa helo Ryan52 azariah4 phantomcircuit TD[away] zacm UukGoblin amiller pigeons petertodd Alanius Luke-Jr warren zfaith EasyAt jrmithdobbs Muis
17:39:23sendak.freenode.net:Users on #bitcoin-wizards: wumpus rs0 realazthat adam3us nOgAnOo jron ssshhh asoltys poggy_ Sorcier_FXK krl OneFixt crescendo ryan-c Sangheili ageis Krellan cfields sneak jgarzik iddo comboy bobke he1kki kinlo wrabbit edulix Emcy Guest81487 BigBitz michagogo|cloud qwertyoruiop forrestv optimator impulse espes__ CodeShark cypherdial nsh BlueMatt lianj heakins
17:43:02tacotime_:And, do I have it right? Okay, payer sends funds to some address generated from stealth address of payee, plus an OP_RETURN that publishes a secret (nonce). Payee scans blockchain looking for a pubkey and secret that will allow him to spend from some address. Payee finds said address, regenerates privkey from secret and pubkey, and then spends funds.
17:44:09tacotime_:Excellent. Thanks.
18:26:47petertodd:tacotime_: all correct. An interesting question is if it would be better to at least have the option for the payment to be recoverable from information purely in the txout - it's plausible that in the future it'd work better once you can get a miner proof of a txout's existence.
18:27:40petertodd:tacotime_: I'm waiting on some Javacsript ECDH benchmarks FWIW before I make any kind of decision - it'd be nice if web-wallets like coinpunk could receive stealth payments entirely in the browser with at least some privacy.
18:28:08petertodd:tacotime_: On the bright side, javacsript SHA256 grinding is plenty fast enough to support stealth + prefixes.
18:29:11petertodd:adam3us: that's exactly what I suggested actually, which leads to an interesting question that BlueMatt(?) brought up: Can you prove to a third party that a given transaction does *not* contain a stego-encoded data packet? With SCIP it's easy to see how that could be possible in principle, but I dunno if it can be made efficient enough to be practical.
18:32:04nsh:you can always upper-bound the redundancy
18:32:13petertodd:nsh: ?
18:33:06nsh:the "spare" information in the transaction after you discount the necessary
18:33:36petertodd:nsh: oh, this isn't standard stego really: you're hiding encrypted data in random junk, so there's no measure of spare to talk about
18:33:48nsh:oh, hmm
18:33:58sipa:well obviously the amount of data that can be stored is limited to the size of the transaction
18:35:05petertodd:the real question is can you prove the execution of a timelock crypto sequence, which is something as simple as 10,000 SHA256 invocations, such that you can prove the end result cheaply to a third party that can evaluate that proof cheaply
18:35:18petertodd:it's obviously possible in principle, but how can it be made practical?
18:38:10nsh:perhaps in the future there will be a market for verify-farms, like compile/render-farms, that perform some computation and provide short/cheap verification proofs for it and its inputs
18:38:30petertodd:nsh: right, that's the "in principle" part :P
18:38:35nsh:* nsh smiles
18:39:33petertodd:nsh: remember the Blub programmer principle: If Peter can't understand the crypto, it's obviously not practical.
18:40:45petertodd:and actually, in practice I use a scricter standard: If Peter can't teach the crypto to someone else, it's not practical
18:42:57sipa:it's not necessarily stricter; you often learn things exactly by trying to explain them to others
18:43:01nsh:* nsh nods
18:44:07nsh:understanding-in-motion has a value above and beyond understanding-in-stasis
18:44:12petertodd:sipa: very true! in uni my smarter calculus classmates were always confused as to why my marks were so much worse than theirs given I was the guy always leading the study sessions :P
18:44:16nsh:like currency in some ways
18:45:49kinlo:blub programmer principle, does that require peter to be smart? :p
18:47:13petertodd:kinlo: the exact opposite :)
18:49:35maaku:maaku is now known as Guest75386
18:50:26Guest75386:Guest75386 is now known as maaku
19:02:53gmaxwell:21:45 < jron> slides from RWC if you haven't seen them yet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uh6erfE9HYE
19:03:02gmaxwell:(zerocash slides)
19:04:39nsh:the audio is almost comprehensible in that recording :)
19:12:23justanotheruser:What is the most interesting development in the cryptocurrency world?
19:12:37justanotheruser:Preferably something I haven't heard about
19:19:13maaku:Jeb donating 25M XRP to MIRI?
19:19:22maaku:kinda hard to guess what you haven't heard about
19:19:26maaku:also, #bitcoin
19:28:50nsh:wrt zerocash, i wonder if you could have some weird cypherpunk ritualized inaugeration event, with some carefully-selected and mutually-audited public parameter generation set-up, then everyone stands around it in robes looking solemn as the priests generate them and the machinery is then ritually destroyed
19:29:01nsh:some cross between the mimbari gray council and burning man
19:30:28sipa:#bitcoin-priests plz
19:31:38nsh:* nsh smiles
19:32:06maaku:* maaku joins #bitcoin-priests
19:32:23maaku:make it happen nsh
19:32:36nsh:i'll start work on the liturgy
19:35:42justanotheruser:maaku: minecraft jeb?
19:36:26maaku:minecraft? no the guy who started MtGox and Ripple Labs
19:36:48justanotheruser:Is jeb magicaltux?
19:37:57justanotheruser:oh, reading the wiki. Looks like jeb sold it to magicaltux
19:38:48sipa:jed, you mean?
21:54:28_ingsoc:_ingsoc is now known as Guest63536