| 01:38:36 | maaku: | is there any reason to change the initialization values when performing truncated hashing, as NIST recommends for its |
| 01:38:46 | maaku: | *for its truncated modes? |
| 04:06:27 | justanotheruser1: | justanotheruser1 is now known as justanotheruser |
| 04:10:45 | phantomcircuit: | petertodd, it's /2 |
| 05:44:24 | spin123456: | spin123456 is now known as spinza |
| 08:20:02 | hobohash: | hobohash has left #bitcoin-wizards |
| 13:02:56 | wallet421: | wallet421 is now known as wallet42 |
| 13:55:25 | n0g4n0o: | n0g4n0o is now known as nOgAnOo |
| 14:17:24 | execut3: | execut3 is now known as shesek |
| 14:37:41 | roidster: | roidster is now known as Guest88335 |
| 15:10:27 | jtimon_: | fund Jamaican bobsled, such pump. fund dogemarket, to the moon http://maaku.github.io/dogemarket.org/ |
| 15:21:25 | _ingsoc: | Hahaha. Nice. |
| 17:02:55 | petertodd: | jtimon_: the amoral marketer in me thinks maaku's use of dogecoin to pump freidmarkets is very shewed |
| 17:03:50 | jtimon_: | can't find shewed... |
| 17:04:00 | helo: | shrewd |
| 17:04:26 | petertodd: | * petertodd hooked on fonics worked for me |
| 17:04:52 | jtimon_: | we have more stuff in mind "Litemarkets: like gold to colored coin's silver" |
| 17:05:40 | petertodd: | jtimon_: I think you need a cheese analogy, because you can find that kind of thing on the moon |
| 17:06:29 | jtimon_: | apparently people didn't undesrtood what free software means and kept complaining about freicoin's demurrage and foundation when talking freimarkets |
| 17:06:43 | jtimon_: | so maybe people get it this way... |
| 17:07:01 | wallet421: | wallet421 is now known as wallet42 |
| 17:07:11 | petertodd: | jtimon_: lol, though speaking of, I noticed that doge's issuing scheme is bugged and results in 5% inflation forever (notied == saw on reddit) |
| 17:07:30 | petertodd: | jtimon_: hilarious that actually matches almost what how I think crypto-currencies should workd! |
| 17:07:41 | jtimon_: | and if those dogs are funding the jamaican bosleigh team... |
| 17:07:48 | petertodd: | heh |
| 17:07:55 | petertodd: | I'll have to buy some |
| 17:08:16 | jtimon_: | maybe the perpetual inflation was on purpose, some other alts have it |
| 17:08:40 | petertodd: | well the github discussion seems to indicate it wasn't, but anyway, happy accident |
| 17:08:50 | sipa: | petertodd: that means the int64 amounts should overflow at some point? |
| 17:08:54 | petertodd: | (pity it'll probably be removed in a hard fork...) |
| 17:09:14 | petertodd: | sipa: what amounts though? there's no "total coins" amount in the consensus code |
| 17:09:47 | jtimon_: | petertodd: I think what sipa means is that you could cause overflows at some point |
| 17:09:57 | petertodd: | sipa: I think the tx code is probably safe because of MAX_MONEY (which the doge team apparently thought was what set the max amount of money) |
| 17:10:06 | jarpiain: | jarpiain is now known as Guest72236 |
| 17:10:34 | sipa: | petertodd: right, i mean more that MAX_MONEY may at some point in the future become uselessly low |
| 17:10:44 | petertodd: | jtimon_: sure, but if no consensus critical code is affected they're ok, and anyway, checked again and it's not 5% inflation, but a linear coin # increase, so it'll take awhile |
| 17:10:56 | sipa: | oh |
| 17:10:59 | sipa: | boring :) |
| 17:11:10 | petertodd: | sipa: well, saying "inflation" was bad of me, so I think they're ok |
| 17:11:25 | jtimon_: | it's monetary inflation |
| 17:11:35 | jtimon_: | not necessarily price inflation |
| 17:11:37 | petertodd: | jtimon_: yup, just not numerical inflation :P |
| 17:11:38 | sipa: | yeah, it's money inflation not price inflation |
| 17:11:42 | sipa: | not what i meant |
| 17:11:53 | sipa: | just that linear increase and not exponential is boring |
| 17:12:08 | petertodd: | sipa: yeah, well, time to make expocoin... |
| 17:12:14 | petertodd: | sipa: e-coin! |
| 17:12:17 | sipa: | exp(coin) |
| 17:12:24 | petertodd: | e^coin! |
| 17:12:41 | sipa: | actually, it's O(coin) - the inflation is proportional to the amount in circulation |
| 17:12:42 | jtimon_: | most people believe freicoin and expocoin are equivalent |
| 17:12:54 | sipa: | jtimon_: aren't they (apart from psychology) ? |
| 17:13:08 | petertodd: | sipa: heh, well, why not e^coin! with ! as factorial... |
| 17:13:20 | jtimon_: | people forked our diff filter, but nobody forked our demurrage |
| 17:13:49 | petertodd: | jtimon_: I think it's a marketing problem; I would have called it "a shared coin security fund" |
| 17:14:17 | jtimon_: | sipa: we believe they influence intrest differently ie: price inflation just rises nominal interest, demurrage makes REAL intereset fall |
| 17:14:54 | jtimon_: | https://www.community-exchange.org/docs/Gesell/en/neo/part5/7.htm |
| 17:15:12 | sipa: | right, but that's just a psychological difference, no? |
| 17:15:14 | jtimon_: | "Hausse-Premium" is usually known as "inflation premium" |
| 17:15:26 | sipa: | the % of coins you own doesn't change |
| 17:15:35 | petertodd: | * petertodd can't believe he just read "support for KYC regulatory compliance" in comic sans |
| 17:15:42 | jtimon_: | sipa think of loans |
| 17:15:50 | jtimon_: | and real capital |
| 17:16:21 | sipa: | jtimon_: define on top of your client a layer that shows every amount as ($VALUE / $TOTAL_IN_CIRCULATION) |
| 17:16:31 | sipa: | jtimon_: expocoin and freicoin do become equivalent then, no? |
| 17:16:49 | sipa: | (honest question, i don't know enough about freicoin) |
| 17:18:35 | jtimon_: | well, not exactly at the low level (don't have refHeights) but yes, I guess economically would be the same if everybody uses the freicoin unit instead of the expocoin one |
| 17:19:11 | petertodd: | sipa, jtimon_: lost coins makes expocoin and freicoin act differently |
| 17:19:38 | jtimon_: | petertodd yes, that's true too |
| 17:20:16 | sipa: | petertodd: how so? |
| 17:20:23 | jtimon_: | freicoin recycles lost coins |
| 17:20:36 | sipa: | how do you detect lost coins? |
| 17:20:54 | jtimon_: | you don't detect them, you destroy all coins and reissue them |
| 17:21:16 | sipa: | i don't understand |
| 17:21:28 | jtimon_: | freicoin is constantly destroying coins, lost wallets or not, and then re-issuing through the miners |
| 17:21:40 | sipa: | i may misunderstand some implementation issues on freicoin |
| 17:21:49 | jtimon_: | we explain it as "demurrage fees go to miners" to simplify |
| 17:21:55 | petertodd: | sipa: demurrage affects you regardless of what other coins are availalble, expocoin just introduces more coins into the economy |
| 17:22:15 | petertodd: | sipa: the result is roughly the same, but the exact amount of economic inflaton can differ in practice |
| 17:22:48 | petertodd: | sipa: never mind that demurrage has other implications, such as how it affects things like colored coins |
| 17:26:46 | jtimon_: | sipa these are probably the more relevant commits https://github.com/freicoin/freicoin/commit/4025098c05c351d72c8a0916ec6010e821d288d6 |
| 17:26:57 | jtimon_: | https://github.com/freicoin/freicoin/commit/cee818350d857029e0e7148fece35646d479aea1 |
| 17:56:40 | gmaxwell: | This is the puzzle I thought some people here might enjoy: http://web.mit.edu/puzzle/www/2014/puzzle/puzzle_with_answer_cronin/ (don't click solution unless you want to be spoiled) Yes, it's supposted to say that its solved, the theme of this section is that puzzles were written backwards, where you got a 'solution' first and had to derrive the title. |
| 18:09:12 | nsh: | gmaxwell, is the title supposed to be a question that leads to the answer 'CRONIN'? |
| 18:12:35 | petertodd: | nsh: 'round here we'd ask 'Find N such that H(n)=' and would have been clever to bruteforce the nonce rather than the PoW solution. |
| 18:13:45 | nsh: | hmm |
| 18:14:05 | gmaxwell: | nsh: well kinda, actually the title is a single word. |
| 18:16:01 | nsh: | * nsh muses |
| 18:16:48 | gmaxwell: | nsh: make you click the card in the page. |
| 18:18:42 | nsh: | well, cheshire nyan is fun, but i'm still confused :/ |
| 18:21:30 | gmaxwell: | You have to go deeper. |
| 18:21:41 | nsh: | oka y:) |
| 18:22:34 | nsh: | yay, loads of hex |
| 19:39:49 | maaku: | sipa: inflation moves slowly through the economy giving preferential benefit to those near its source when prices are sticky |
| 19:40:46 | maaku: | and love the O(coin) name |
| 20:16:09 | maaku: | suggestion to jgarzik: crowd-fund in dogecoins your cubesat project. you can send it on L-50 which is taking 50 units to the moon |
| 20:16:27 | maaku: | I think you can drum up enough support to actually send a dogecoin node to the moon (and put a bitcoin node on there too, of course) |
| 20:18:51 | jgarzik: | heh |
| 20:19:38 | nsh: | that would probably work |
| 20:19:42 | nsh: | i wanna send something to the moon |
| 20:20:14 | nsh: | (a robot that tracks down and destroys the american flag) |
| 20:20:34 | nsh: | ((joke. there's no american flag)) |
| 20:22:23 | nsh: | maaku, what is this L-50? |
| 20:22:24 | maaku: | jgarzik: i'm serious : http://www.lunarcubes.com/ |
| 20:22:30 | nsh: | ah ty |
| 20:23:14 | nsh: | is there a definite launch planned? |
| 20:23:57 | maaku: | nsh: V-50 is a 50-unit housing module attached to centaur upper stages, which go through Earth-Moon L4/L5 on their way out of cislunar space |
| 20:24:14 | maaku: | L-50 is a project to buy one of these to send cubes to the moon |
| 20:24:30 | nsh: | ah, i see |
| 20:24:36 | maaku: | there's also plans to use them for Mars exploration, but that requires a relay spacecraft |
| 20:25:04 | BigBitz: | Heh, cool quiz, gmaxwell :) or puzzle, whatever. :) |
| 20:25:14 | nsh: | would it be feasible to book passage on a regular comsat launch for that? or would it require a special trajectory? |
| 20:25:28 | maaku: | (once you're at Earth-Moon or Earth-Sun lagrange points, it's basically downhill to anywhere in the inner solar system, with the right orbit) |
| 20:25:43 | nsh: | * nsh nods |
| 20:26:02 | maaku: | nsh: the Centaur stages are what take comsats to GEO, then for satallite safety reasons they use their latent fuel to eject themselves from cislunar space |
| 20:26:16 | nsh: | oooh |
| 20:26:22 | nsh: | that's convenient |
| 20:26:37 | maaku: | so every. single. launch. of a GEO bird sends a centaur stage (or equiv) through one of these trajectories |
| 20:27:06 | nsh: | * nsh crosses out all his ambitions and replaces with "write code that ends up orbiting moon" |
| 20:27:13 | nsh: | :) |
| 20:49:49 | petertodd: | * petertodd crosses out all his ambitions and replaces them with "write code that exploits code orbiting the moon" |
| 20:51:58 | maaku: | that you coudl do now... |
| 20:52:49 | brisque: | working on software on the moon would be awful. imagine the cost of getting somebody to go there and power cycle your server because you killed the wrong process. |
| 21:00:12 | CodeShark: | keep someone there at all times just in case |
| 21:03:31 | CodeShark: | the most annoying thing about working on software on the moon would be the latency |
| 21:04:17 | brisque: | probably get better latency to the moon than on a 3G connection, it's not all that far away |
| 21:04:29 | CodeShark: | a quarter of a million miles |
| 21:04:41 | brisque: | little over a second then? |
| 21:05:01 | CodeShark: | in each direction, yes |
| 21:05:37 | brisque: | just use a client with local echo, it'd be just as usable a SSH over GPRS |
| 21:08:11 | jgarzik: | maaku, not implying you were not being serious. just fun :) dogecoin has a lot of cute marketing, like the bobsled thing. |
| 21:10:59 | CodeShark: | SSH over GPRS is usable? hell, anything over GPRS is usable? |
| 21:12:20 | brisque: | http://mosh.mit.edu/ |
| 21:12:57 | brisque: | I used a phone with a GPRS connection for a few years, it was incredibly painful. |
| 21:19:14 | CodeShark: | many of us did |