00:30:25home_jg:home_jg is now known as jgarzik
03:57:49werebutt:werebutt has left #bitcoin-wizards
05:30:50tacotime_:tacotime_ is now known as tt_zzz
10:06:32nOgAnOo:HERE IS MY CRYPTSY REFERAL ID IF ANYONE WOULD LIKE TO HELP A BORN AGAIN CHRISTIAN. - 70bc3b83eab4372e62132d96cede435c627516a5
10:31:49grazs:a what
11:00:35TD[away]:TD[away] is now known as TD
13:18:57warren:http://www.identitymind.com/company/partners/ "There are about 10 Billion devices in the world that are connected to the Internet and BlueCava aims to identify all of them."
13:20:23brisque:wonder what they're using to distinguish devices. surely most embedded linux devices all have the same public fingerprint, there's barely anything to distinguish them.
13:21:21warren:more bitcoin devices than humans in the world
13:23:32TD:i am skeptical about the 10 billion figure
13:24:10TD:having worked in the field myself i am a lot MORE skeptical about identifying all of them being a remotely realistic goal
13:26:04brisque:their goal seems to be attempting to correlate users between devices. matching one browser fingerprint with another, rather than trying to uniquely identify devices.
13:28:51TD:yes of course
13:28:53TD:it's still rather hard
13:29:05TD:well, assuming you "play the game" normally of course
13:30:27brisque:I doubt any of these companies do. if google is using browser bugs to track Safari devices against their cookie settings, you can be pretty sure these companies are going even dirtier.
13:31:27TD:ah, well you don't know the story of that bug.
13:31:42TD:there is a long explanation of it here: http://lauren.vortex.com/archive/000937.html
13:31:54TD:tl;dr that was actually a bug in safari and google got the blame for it. nice, huh
13:32:48TD:by "play the game" i meant, try and do it all in the browser. if i had a really compelling product to sell for credit cards i'd ask the user to download and run a native app
13:33:02TD:you can get a lot more scammers that way, of course
13:34:32brisque:TD: that's interesting, i heard the noise around the time but the followup must not have had quite the journalistic merit.
13:35:37TD:the "story" was revealed by the wall street journal at a time when Murdoch was giving speeches about how Google was destroying the newspaper business and it'd be saved by the iPad
13:36:02TD:and it went downhill from there
13:37:51brisque:that bluecarva.com thing seems reasonably standard. it does the usual, user agent, plugin version, installed fonts, all the normal fingerprinting stuff. attempts to put cookies and lcoalstorage cookies everywhere, and that's about the end of it.
13:38:20brisque:comes with a big scary warning about how the source they're presenting is confidential and secret, but that's about the end of it.
13:39:25TD:yeah that's typical
13:39:30TD:of course carders know about all of that
13:39:53brisque:coinbase uses all of those too, interestingly enough.
13:44:37brisque:looks like bluecarva tries to use clock skew as a fingerprint too, that's one I hadn't thought of before.
13:49:49jgarzik:jgarzik is now known as home_jg
14:16:49aksyn:you can probably fingerprint a browser version based on rendering time of certain DOM elements
14:17:25aksyn:and yeh, shotgun crap into cookies, localstorage, flash cookies etc. to identify users
14:18:28aksyn:market seems busy for a monday night
14:18:45aksyn:on huobi at least
15:16:05tt_zzz:tt_zzz is now known as tacotime_
16:04:04TD_:TD_ is now known as TD2
16:43:29OneFixt_:OneFixt_ is now known as OneFixt
17:00:15grazs:but he looks so honest
17:01:42tacotime_:Popped on those charges for just a mil too, sucks.
17:02:38gmaxwell:Guess the folks who were hoping to get coins back from him, http://bitinstant.info/ are out of luck.
17:14:16sipa:gmaxwell: get coins back?
17:18:18gmaxwell:sipa: right before bitinstant shut down apparently they bought BTC from a number of parties and never paid. see the link.
17:26:56pigeons:SHREM is also charged with one count of willful failure to file a suspicious activity report, which carries a maximum sentence of five years in prison.
17:27:10sipa:and the site is gone
17:28:34tacotime_:I'm guessing maybe they dug up the silk road stuff after getting subpoenas/warrants related to fraud.
17:33:01phantomcircuit:tacotime_, yeah or you know they're reading all of the silkroad message system messages
17:33:08phantomcircuit:im thinking that one
17:33:47_ingsoc:Highly unlikely they'd arrest someone high profile without a solid case that'll probably end up in a successful prosecution.
17:34:43krl:having messages in cleartext on a site like that...
17:36:17tacotime_:krl: You really think someone would do that? Just go on illegal marketplace sites on the internet and use cleartext to communicate? :yaranaika face:
17:36:29home_jg:TorMail data was also seized in its entirety
17:36:47home_jg:as part of the Freedom Hosting takedown
17:36:47krl:people will unless you force them not to
17:37:30home_jg:at _ingsoc implied, arrests at the federal level are not usually made unless they are convinced they have a strong case.
17:38:04home_jg:successful prosecution rate is > 90%. They also overcharge, hoping to negotiate down to a guilty plea that sticks
17:39:23home_jg:will make the NY hearing _very_ interesting. It appears that was the intention (just my supposition...)
17:40:44sipa:what hearing?
17:41:09tacotime_:I guess maybe he should have been working with Swiss banks.
17:41:28home_jg:sipa, https://twitter.com/BenLawsky/status/426431501115211776 etc.
17:41:46home_jg:NYDFS is holding hearings, similar to the US senate hearings.
17:42:01home_jg:Lawsky is the "you should have BitLicenses" guy at NY-DFS
17:42:02sipa:New York... depth first search?
17:42:09home_jg:Dept Financial Services
17:42:19home_jg:NY regulator of money transmitters
17:42:25sipa:got it
17:43:18home_jg:I think these hearings will be much more harsh than the US Senate hearings
17:55:09gmaxwell:home_jg: well the 90% conviction rate is in part because damn near everyone pleds guilty because its so stacked against you.
18:05:55maaku:maaku is now known as Guest19097
18:10:15michagogo|cloud:Did bitinstant market to SR users or something?
18:11:57pigeons:not like the charge would imply
18:23:27Guest19097:Guest19097 is now known as maaku
18:49:29TD:michagogo|cloud: read the criminal complaint
18:49:36TD:michagogo|cloud: the dude is almost certainly going to spend a long time behind bars
18:49:51TD:michagogo|cloud: the evidence just in the document needed to get an arrest warrant seems to create an open/shut case.
18:51:52TD:gmaxwell: that .... and prosecutors try to avoid spending time on weak cases. japan has a 99% conviction rate but not the same culture of insane jail sentences
18:52:04TD:UK has 80%
18:53:02TD:anyway home time
18:53:11shesek:michagogo|cloud, if I understand correctly, he did this via a 3rd party company that was marketing to SR users
18:53:51TD:third party guy
18:53:51michagogo|cloud:TD: I was specifically asking about the "sold bitcoins for drugs" part
18:54:09michagogo|cloud:* michagogo|cloud goes to read
18:54:24TD:shrem knew he was selling bitcoins to a drug dealer on SR, said he knew many times, and explicitly helped the guy avoid bitinstant's partner companies AML controls
18:54:36_ingsoc:TD: Plea deal or jail time?
18:54:38michagogo|cloud:TD: ah
18:54:43michagogo|cloud:BTW, shesek, could you tell me if you're able to access tigerdirect.com?
18:54:56TD:the guy's emails write the case for him. the prosecutor probably doesn't even need to turn up
18:54:58shesek:michagogo|cloud, nope. blocking Israeli IPs?
18:54:59TD:_ingsoc: both?
18:55:12michagogo|cloud:shesek: Would appear so
18:55:21michagogo|cloud:Looks like Germany isn't blocked, while Latvia is
18:55:35shesek:perhaps some poor anti-ddos protection?
18:55:42michagogo|cloud:* michagogo|cloud shrugs
18:56:15phantomcircuit:it's internap
18:56:21phantomcircuit:so yeah probably just terrible anti-ddos
18:56:52phantomcircuit:michagogo|cloud, charlie is going to prison for a very very long time
18:57:19phantomcircuit:michagogo|cloud, internap.com
18:57:33shesek:TD, oh, right, guy. I thought Faiella was a company
18:57:39TD:nope. that's his last name
18:58:11phantomcircuit:shesek, he's the guy who was all over sr offering to purchase money packs
18:58:24phantomcircuit:iirc he even had a ridiculous little cartoon king
18:58:41TD:he was getting people to deposit into his personal bank account, even
18:59:08shesek:I never used SR, so I'm not really familiar with that/him
18:59:14gmaxwell:I wonder if he's the guy who OTC downrated me when I punted him from OTC for his moneypak moneylaundering.
18:59:19shesek:o_O his personal bank account? is he stupid?
18:59:22phantomcircuit:TD, afaict faiella legitimately did not believe that he was breaking the law
18:59:35TD:shesek: has anyone who has been involved with SR so far *not* been stupid?
18:59:41phantomcircuit:gmaxwell, he has definitely been on -otc before
18:59:56TD:shesek: i mean, Shrem was supposed to be head of regulatory compliance at BitInstant and was busy telling reporters how he'd only hire people he got stoned with
19:00:06phantomcircuit:shesek, neither have i, but i went through and looked at it out of morbid curiosity
19:00:23TD:phantomcircuit: do read the complaint. they address that. he absolutely knew, and wrote to DPR that he was afraid LE would come for him
19:00:24shesek:TD, I guess consumers are pretty safe - there's too many of them to do anything to any of them
19:00:28TD:they all knew. none of these guys have been idiots
19:00:46phantomcircuit:TD, fiella?
19:00:50TD:phantomcircuit: yes
19:00:50phantomcircuit:or shrem?
19:00:53TD:phantomcircuit: both
19:00:55michagogo|cloud:Count Three, overt act b
19:00:57gmaxwell:phantomcircuit: fiella, near the end.
19:00:59phantomcircuit:well the question is when
19:01:06michagogo|cloud:Anyone care to guess which service that is? :P
19:01:16gmaxwell:Basically fiella talks to DPR and points out how vulnerable he is.
19:01:24phantomcircuit:i warned charlie that operating in the us was illegal at the same time i shutdown intersango usd trading
19:01:38phantomcircuit:he ignored me obviously
19:01:47TD:shesek: who knows? it's not joe random dealer that worries me, it's that shrem was dealing with businesses who (we think) are legitimate and actually try to follow the law, but the laws are so vaguely written that trying and failing can be punished in the same way as deliberately failing
19:02:16TD:so i'm hoping they don't go after mtgox or the cash processor next (i think i know who that was)
19:02:27TD:given that BitInstant died when their cash processor cut them off for AML violations, hopefully that insulates them
19:02:39phantomcircuit:TD, the cash processor is pretty clearly zipzap
19:02:47TD:i know. for some reason i didn't want to say it
19:02:52TD:it's not named in the complaint
19:02:58phantomcircuit:zipzap is pretty obviously an unlicensed money transmitter
19:03:02gmaxwell:Obviously the exchange in the complaint is mtgox.
19:03:07TD:yes indeed
19:03:28phantomcircuit:i would be fairly surprised if mtgox is implicated in this in anyway
19:03:42michagogo|cloud:Hm, section 10: is that The Foundation?
19:03:43phantomcircuit:despite bitinstant's claims they were never an agent of mtgox
19:03:47michagogo|cloud:Or some other foundation?
19:03:48phantomcircuit:michagogo|cloud, yes it is
19:03:54shesek:they do need to show intent, I'm not sure how easy that would be... if they did try to follow the law and didn't do anything maliciously, they should be fine
19:03:55phantomcircuit:charlie is a founding member iirc
19:04:04gmaxwell:In any case, its a bit annoying because _legally_ there probably isn't a bright line procedural distinction between what was going on here and what a lot of other things are doing/have done which aren't intentionally trying to facilitate unlawful activity.
19:04:05TD:"vice chair" :(
19:04:13shesek:though... the laws are indeed vaguely written and you never know :-\
19:04:18phantomcircuit:michagogo|cloud, https://bitcoinfoundation.org/about/board
19:04:37TD:the foundation has sucked at cleaning its website of members that were later found to be involved in bad stuff. the logo of inputs.io is still there!
19:04:53phantomcircuit:TD, is it really?
19:04:54TD:gmaxwell: right, there isn't .... it's part of why banks refuse to deal with bitcoin companies
19:05:06michagogo|cloud:Who's the webmaster?
19:05:16gmaxwell:So while we can all look at this and say "Idiots!" the successful prosecution here may lay the groundwork for causing problems for people who weren't doing anyhting that was so obviously problematic.
19:05:24TD:it was, at least
19:05:30_ingsoc:Lol, Mark. I wonder how badly the US wants him too.
19:05:31sipa:TD: guess i haven't followed up so closely, what is inputs.io?
19:05:35phantomcircuit:shesek, the unlicensed operation of a money transmitter is fairly solidly defined, the failure to file an SAR stuff however largely has to do with whether a reasonable person would have found the activity suspicious
19:05:37shesek:TD, I'm not sure how that works, can he simply be removed from it?
19:05:47michagogo|cloud:sipa: webwallet specializing in micropayments
19:05:48phantomcircuit:shesek, (or rather whether a reasonable compliance officer would have known)
19:05:50TD:sipa: a bitbank run by an anonymous dude who vanished with everyones money
19:06:05TD:michagogo|cloud: a new website is being built actually
19:06:06sipa:TD: ah, same old story :)
19:06:11midnightmagic:The knowingly facilitating SR stuff probably is something that will differentiate future *actually* innocent people.
19:06:18phantomcircuit:TD, mybitcoin.com 2.0
19:06:19shesek:TD, there must be some official procedure for removing board members. I'm not sure if its possible to simply delete him from the page :O
19:06:32gmaxwell:Not just that but shortly before inputs.io existed the guy was on the forum selling accounts and stuff, it stank from a long distince away.
19:06:49phantomcircuit:shesek, there is and it can be done within 48 hours
19:06:53midnightmagic:There is a procedure for removing board members who have engaged in criminal activity and it requires a vote from the remaining directors.
19:07:00phantomcircuit:gavinandresen, migggght want to start that
19:07:16midnightmagic:But he's not convicted yet..
19:07:32jgarzik:catching up... URL of criminal complaint?
19:07:37phantomcircuit:midnightmagic, iirc board members can be removed by a vote of 2/3rds
19:08:03midnightmagic:phantomcircuit: I think it requires cause doesn't it?
19:08:03shesek:or a tl;dr: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1wac1t/ceo_of_bitinstant_arrested_for_conspiracy_to/cf048a1
19:08:38shesek:shesek has left #bitcoin-wizards
19:09:08_ingsoc:Wtf was he thinking?
19:09:11phantomcircuit:midnightmagic, ah founding members have more rights than normal members
19:09:18TD:michagogo|cloud: though FWIW i get looped in on a lot of foundation stuff, and i have never once seen a reference to Shrem doing anything at all
19:09:23midnightmagic:shesek: The full bylaws (except for possible changes that they've neglected or deliberately refused to release to the github repo) are here: https://github.com/pmlaw/The-Bitcoin-Foundation-Legal-Repo/tree/master/Bylaws
19:09:51shesek:midnightmagic, thanks
19:09:52TD:he may well have been a founding member but he had little impact on the organisation beyond that, i guess
19:10:11gmaxwell:I was surprised to hear that he was in miami, I thought he'd largely dropped off the radar after bitinstant shut down.
19:10:18gmaxwell:esp with people accusing him of theft.
19:10:24phantomcircuit:gmaxwell, yeah he was super busy getting wasted...
19:10:25TD:yeah, i didn't hear anything about him lately either.
19:10:50sipa:gmaxwell: when did it shut down?
19:11:08TD:many months ago
19:11:12TD:when zipzap terminated them
19:11:29gmaxwell:sipa: june 2013ish?
19:11:48michagogo|cloud:phantomcircuit: 3.6(b), you mean?
19:11:55TD:it's in the complaint
19:11:57shesek:some people are also accusing him of stealing money - http://bitinstant.info/
19:12:15phantomcircuit:michagogo|cloud, 3.6(b) defines how a member can be terminated, 5.16(b) defines how a founding member can be terminated
19:12:24phantomcircuit:shrem is a founding member
19:12:32TD:i looked at the SR forums once, a long time ago. it was full of threads complaining about bitinstant's AML policies. i figured charlie had finally wised up.
19:12:33TD:guess not
19:12:39michagogo|cloud:3.6(b) is what defines founding members' special rights, afaict
19:12:48maaku:phantomcircuit: charges are pretty damning and not defending shrem at all ... but innocent until proven guilty is a pretty important part of due process
19:13:22shesek:so if I understand this correctly, until (and if) he's convicted, and unless he resigns, he remains a foundation members and part of the board
19:13:25phantomcircuit:maaku, sure, but the foundation is not the government, charlie has no right to be assumed innocent by a private party
19:13:34maaku:maybe there's some sort of way his duties as director can be suspended
19:13:35phantomcircuit:especially when he is so clearly guilty as all hell
19:13:59phantomcircuit:shesek, that's correct
19:14:07TD:there's a 2/3rd vote that could also remove him
19:14:09sipa:gmaxwell: and how long has that bitinstant.info thing been going on?
19:14:27shesek:3.6b - Except for the Founding Members who shall only be removed for cause (per the requirements detailed in Section 5.16(b)) ... 5.16b: : (i) declared of unsound mind by a final order of court; (ii) convicted of a felony; or (iii) found by a final order or judgment to have breached any duty arising under these Bylaws,
19:14:39michagogo|cloud:I haven't read the whole thing, but it looks like he can be removed as director under 5.16(c)
19:14:46_ingsoc:sipa: First time I heard of it. :/
19:14:52sipa:_ingsoc: same
19:14:55michagogo|cloud:All that requires cause is removal of his membership entirely
19:15:00phantomcircuit:TD, you're right 5.16(c)
19:15:06shesek:michagogo|cloud, not as a founding member, it seems
19:15:16phantomcircuit:TD, except looking at the sitting members of the board you're not going to get that
19:15:26maaku:sipa: since about the time bitinstant shut down, I forget when that was
19:15:32michagogo|cloud:shesek: From those two sections, I think it's only his membership that's protected as a founding member
19:15:37michagogo|cloud:Not his directorship
19:15:58phantomcircuit:michagogo|cloud, there isn't a way to remove him as a director without stripping his membership afaict
19:16:05michagogo|cloud:Isn't there?
19:16:08TD:sipa: that site is itself kind of dodgy looking.
19:16:15sipa:TD: no doubt about that
19:16:17michagogo|cloud:What about 5.16(c)?
19:16:30sipa:i just never knew there was any problem with bitinstant or people complaining about it :)
19:16:41sipa:but i clearly missed some things :)
19:16:46michagogo|cloud:Or is there something saying that removing a director necessarily removes their membership?
19:16:50TD:i knew they had an issue supplying people during the april spike and that triggered a class action lawsuit. this sounds different
19:17:05shesek:I bumped into that .info site for the first time today, too
19:17:21shesek:I have no idea who's behind that and if they have anything to back that up, was just pointing out he's accused by some people
19:18:46phantomcircuit:TD, they have bigger problems than that
19:19:07phantomcircuit:TD, well...
19:19:18phantomcircuit:i believe bitinstant actually lost a good amount of their records
19:19:29phantomcircuit:as in they failed to deliver because they didn't know who purchased what
19:19:29michagogo|cloud:It would seem to me, from sections 3.6 and 5.16, that while his membership can't be terminated without cause, he can be removed as a director
19:19:44TD:at this point i'd believe anything about them
19:19:51michagogo|cloud:(unless there's a part saying that removing a director terminates their membership...)
19:19:52phantomcircuit:michagogo|cloud, except getting 2/3rds of the board to agree isn't something i expect to happen
19:20:03jgarzik:"my night out with bitcoin millionaire and proud stoner Charlie Shrem" http://www.vocativ.com/12-2013/night-bitcoin-millionaire-proud-stoner-charlie-shrem/
19:20:06midnightmagic:michagogo|cloud: Only if he's convicted.
19:20:09jgarzik:Profile pieces like that can't help.
19:20:12michagogo|cloud:midnightmagic: no
19:20:23michagogo|cloud:midnightmagic: If he were convicted, his membership could be terminated
19:20:25midnightmagic:Ah (c)
19:20:30michagogo|cloud:But without a co-yes
19:20:46TD:and banned in russia too? crappy day for bitcoin indeed
19:21:02midnightmagic:Simple majority required for cause. 2/3 for without cause.
19:21:06phantomcircuit:russia is bipolar about regulation
19:21:12phantomcircuit:tomorrow they'll change their mind entirely
19:21:34TD:seems like it's the usual thing where different parts of government can't agree
19:21:39phantomcircuit:midnightmagic, you'll notice a felony conviction doesn't automatically eject them
19:21:48phantomcircuit:this is because roger ver is a felon
19:22:25TD:i would assume it'd be easy to distinguish between "convicted whilst being a member" and "convicted before being a member"
19:22:58TD:anyway. home time.
19:23:08TD:TD is now known as TD[away]
19:26:31michagogo|cloud:* michagogo|cloud cringes at the away nick
19:26:56midnightmagic:phantomcircuit: Yeah I remember we had that conversation before and thinking it was odd but I suppose not unexpected.
19:27:09maaku::sigh: is it really so hard to run an honest bitcoin business?
19:28:14gmaxwell:it's probably very hard or nearly impossible to be pedantically law abiding for many classes of business.
19:28:27midnightmagic:maaku: The attraction is very very strong to psychopaths and sociopaths. It's not hard. It's just easier to someone who literally can't anticipate or is completely unaffected by, consequences for actions.
19:28:42midnightmagic:.. to choose to conduct themselves unethically.
19:28:47gmaxwell:So you have this cooling effect where people who are both smart enough and interested enough in being law abiding run for the hills. What remains is overly dense with people who are stupid or sleezy.
19:29:06midnightmagic:and what gmaxwell said
19:29:44midnightmagic:maaku: The cool part is honest people are pretty good at recognising other honest people, and especially non-psychopaths.
19:30:29gmaxwell:Back in early 2011 I got pulled into technically consult with some people looking at running an exchange in the US and basically they concluded that the regulatory uncertanty was so great— esp with the possiblity of criminal charges even if you thought you were doing everything right— that no amount of potential upside would make it make sense.
19:30:57jgarzik:I concluded same, independently ;p
19:31:12midnightmagic:* midnightmagic is glad to live in Canada, not for the first time
19:31:16jgarzik:* jgarzik wanted to do an exchange in late 2010, but research proved 'hell no'
19:32:23phantomcircuit:gmaxwell, the principle issue is that it's difficult to operate a legitimate business if your competition are not compliant
19:32:37phantomcircuit:their costs are temporarily below yours
19:32:54_ingsoc:jgarzik: Smart man.
19:33:13jgarzik:phantomcircuit, indeed
19:33:18phantomcircuit:gmaxwell, operating an exchange in the us isn't impossible, just wildly expensive
19:33:22sipa:this is not really a wizards discussion, though...
19:33:53midnightmagic:sometimes wizards non-technical analyses or research is a quick way to disseminate myth-free facts.
19:34:29midnightmagic:just.. wanted to say I appreciate the links and quick refreshers on bitinstant history.
19:35:57jgarzik:sipa, agreed, though I think it's OK on rare days, when it's not drowning out other discussion
19:36:15jgarzik:days like when bitcoin is almost-banned in Russia and Shrem is arrested, for instance ;p
19:36:31sipa:well, i'm not innocent in keeping the discussion alive either
19:36:46sipa:but i like the rule of keeping this channel about non-actual-today-bitcoin stuff
19:37:31gmaxwell:sadly I don't think I can extract any real wizards discussion from this.
19:39:40optimator:sobering read - http://www.scribd.com/doc/202555785/United-States-vs-Charles-Shrem-and-Robert-M-Faiella
19:41:07midnightmagic:* midnightmagic 's optimism gets strangled in its crib
19:41:14jgarzik:sipa, part of the "problem" is that the conversation is really people-centered, not topic-centered. #bitcoin-dev-chatter-but-without-the-assholes.
19:41:32michagogo|cloud:optimator: Is that document identical to http://www.scribd.com/doc/202572639/Faiella-Robert-M-and-Charlie-Shrem-Complaint?
19:41:34jgarzik:thus is appears whereever we are ;p
19:41:49michagogo|cloud:(appears to be)
19:43:07optimator:michagogo|cloud - i think so, it's just the link i had
20:38:11adam3us1:ooh policy-wizards :) shrem = crazy guy, doing seemingly self-sabotaging actions if the accusations are correct.
20:38:16wyager:wyager has left #bitcoin-wizards
20:46:47petertodd:adam3us1: overhearing him talking with a group while prepping my talk in the speakers room at the san jose conference convinced me the dude was a bit unbalanced to say the least
21:36:43jtimon:has anyone looked into twister?
21:37:20jtimon:seems interesting http://twister.net.co/
21:41:34home_jg:home_jg is now known as jgarzik
21:52:02azariah4:"The twister incentive is: whoever finds the hash collision to validate a new block of transactions will be awarded with the right to send a promoted message. Promoted messages have a certain probability of being displayed by twister client."
21:52:06azariah4:hehe :D
21:52:22azariah4:at first I laughed, but thinking of it, it's not too bad for a microblogging platform
21:52:37azariah4:some company could throw hash power at it to push some ads
21:52:47sipa:it's trivial to modify your client to just ignore such promoted messages, though...
21:52:52michagogo|cloud:except that you can just not display th-
21:52:56michagogo|cloud:what sipa said
21:55:22azariah4:well, adblock+ haven't killed the website ad industry
21:56:15jtimon:why didn't they just used namecoin for the user registration?
21:57:21sipa:reinventing the wheel is more fun, especially when the wheel can be made to look like a hammer
22:14:55adam3us1:azariah4: is twister an alt as well as a p2p microblog?
22:46:24andytoshi:john baez has a neat article about information complexity and bitcoin scarcity: https://johncarlosbaez.wordpress.com/2014/01/27/the-rarest-things-in-the-universe/
22:47:14andytoshi:i mean, bitcoin rarity. scarcity is an econ term that i don't mean to use
22:52:48andytoshi:he suggests a POW with a trapdoor function so that the key possessor (i.e. the government) can print coins. then you get the monetary control of fiat -and- the unforgeability of bitcoin :}
22:53:37gmaxwell:andytoshi: you don't need to use a pow for that, if you want to give someone the power to inflate the currency you can just let them (via a key) spend coins that don't exist just directly in the system.
22:54:03gmaxwell:POW = minting is a weird notion; in bitcoin pow = consensus, minting is just permitted as a rule in the blocks. :)
22:56:36andytoshi:yeah, i get that. baez is very unfamiliar with bitcoin and (i think) he thinks that the small hashes are the actual "coins".
22:56:57andytoshi:though, it is neat to see a complete outsider perspective from somebody as smart as him
22:57:51gmaxwell:yea thats not actually an uncommon belief.
22:58:01gmaxwell:I dunno where it comes from though.
23:06:35midnightmagic:password cracking analogies probably.
23:25:49CampyCoin:Any interest in domains?
23:26:42phantomcircuit:gmaxwell, ^
23:28:11CampyCoin:I'm confused here, let me know if I've done something wrong
23:44:08CampyCoin:anybody want some domains?
23:44:37nsh:that's off-topic here, CampyCoin
23:49:07gmaxwell:gmaxwell has kicked CampyCoin from #bitcoin-wizards