| 00:05:55 | HM: | HM is now known as HM2 |
| 00:28:50 | jgarzik: | Yet another wallet |
| 00:28:54 | jgarzik: | geticoin.com |
| 00:29:25 | jgarzik: | FLOSS app Mac/Win/Lin |
| 00:29:32 | tacotime: | kiiiinda looks like the qt client |
| 00:30:29 | jgarzik: | Yech, a scamcoin, nevermind |
| 00:30:34 | Luke-Jr: | .. was about to say |
| 00:30:36 | Luke-Jr: | lol |
| 00:30:45 | Luke-Jr: | Algorithm: Scrypt |
| 00:30:47 | Luke-Jr: | fail |
| 00:46:04 | TD: | jgarzik: if you want another actual new wallet, look at kncwallet |
| 00:46:23 | TD: | it's a fork of andreas' android app, + integration with their own server for matching phone numbers to public keys |
| 00:46:34 | TD: | so you can send money to people in your contact list |
| 00:46:46 | TD: | they're incentivising new users by giving $5 of free coins |
| 00:47:16 | nsh: | hm |
| 00:48:44 | TD: | they redid the ui too |
| 01:11:09 | andytoshi: | gmaxwell: omg, your reddit guy just posted "who cares, people can trust bc.i to audit gox" |
| 01:16:43 | gmaxwell: | andytoshi: sorry, I can't see your text through my cracked screen. |
| 01:16:56 | just[dead]: | just[dead] is now known as justanotheruser |
| 01:17:08 | gmaxwell: | (not really— but it did kinda make me wonder if he was just trolling me) |
| 01:18:03 | warren: | TD: andreas app is GPLv3, did they release source? |
| 01:18:28 | TD: | yes |
| 01:19:08 | Luke-Jr: | I thought Android store was anti-GPL? |
| 01:21:04 | warren: | Luke-Jr: that's was apple |
| 01:30:51 | Luke-Jr: | ah |
| 01:39:34 | justanotheruser: | justanotheruser is now known as just[dead] |
| 01:42:38 | just[dead]: | just[dead] is now known as justanotheruser |
| 01:58:51 | justanotheruser: | justanotheruser is now known as just[dead] |
| 02:01:43 | copumpkin: | copumpkin is now known as sarah |
| 02:01:53 | sarah: | sarah is now known as janice |
| 02:03:17 | janice: | janice is now known as janedoe |
| 02:11:11 | janedoe: | janedoe is now known as copumpkin |
| 02:20:28 | ens_: | ens_ is now known as ens |
| 02:23:45 | jgarzik: | does anybody have a Tor address that I can -addnode? |
| 02:25:32 | andytoshi: | try mtzcz5knzjmuclnx.onion |
| 02:25:47 | andytoshi: | often it is down, i have my tor node bandwidth capped |
| 03:03:42 | maaku_: | Luke-Jr: android/google is anti-*A*GPL |
| 03:36:52 | just[dead]: | just[dead] is now known as justanotheruser |
| 03:42:21 | maaku_: | gmaxwell: what's the nick of the guy that recently proposed a blind signature scheme for ECDSA? |
| 03:44:03 | gmaxwell: | oleganza |
| 03:45:39 | adam3us: | so about the blind ecdsa i was wondering (because its not a conventional blind scheme) if this is a simpler way to get the effect he gets, or even getting reuse |
| 03:46:28 | justanotheruser: | justanotheruser is now known as just[dead] |
| 03:47:34 | adam3us: | so eg create a random private key d, choose a random value e, keep d'=d-e, encrypt e for the servers public key. when you want to sign, talk to the server provide your out of band auth, get it to decrypt |
| 03:48:26 | adam3us: | that seems to do everything he proposed and also allow reuse (you cant reuse his blind sig because if you reuse k, the private key can be computed from the two signatures) |
| 03:50:29 | andytoshi: | what do you mean 'encrypt e for the servers public key' |
| 03:51:38 | andytoshi: | i spent quite a while trying to get reuse, the nature of ecdsa seems to block that without the server being able to learn too much |
| 03:52:30 | adam3us: | andytoshi: say the server as an ecdsa public key advertised, or an RSA public key; encrypt e with that public key. now when you want to sign, ask the server to decrypt the encrypted value you sent and send it back to you. then you can recombine d=d'+e and then you can sign yourself. the properties seem to be the same, slightly more flexible even and simpler. |
| 03:53:55 | andytoshi: | hmm, yeah, wow |
| 03:55:52 | andytoshi: | fwiw in oleganza's proposal the user never sees the complete key, so if he can't trust himself for some reason (maybe he thinks he is keylogged say) there could be a problem here |
| 03:56:50 | adam3us: | andytoshi: well (yes i was just going to say the same thing). his blind ecdsa is a bit more like a multi-party sig. or a third party sig - its a sig from teh server with a key the user never knows. |
| 03:57:14 | andytoshi: | for your proposal you could do even simpler, the server chooses e and gives the user eG |
| 03:57:33 | andytoshi: | that's enough for the user to produce (d-e)G and create a txout that requires (d-e) to sign |
| 03:59:02 | andytoshi: | the interaction pattern is a bit different there, your proposal doesn't require a setup phase |
| 04:00:36 | gmaxwell: | adam3us: I thought about this and I think I have a class of applications where thats not enough. :) |
| 04:01:17 | adam3us: | andytoshi: yep. in theory if the address is one use, it doesnt matter much to temporarily receive the private key. the signature is just as sensitive as the private key (so long as you succeed to have it mined before the private key is stolen from you) |
| 04:02:05 | gmaxwell: | adam3us: Say that andytoshi and I want to make some kind of futures contract. If bitstamp prices do X one set of payouts happen, of bitstamp prices do Y another set of payouts happen. You are our oracle that will observe bitstamp and sign our transactions. But we really don't want you to ever be able to tell which txn were ours, since we don't want you tracing our funds or knowing the value of our transactions. |
| 04:02:43 | gmaxwell: | adam3us: with the blind signature scheme andytoshi and I can sign off on a set of blinded values which you are to choose from and sign based on the result. Because both andy and I are not mutually trusting, there is no one person you could just give a secret key too. |
| 04:02:57 | gmaxwell: | Though we could cooperate in the creation of the blinded values for signing. |
| 04:03:31 | adam3us: | gmaxwell: maybe a 1 of 2 could do the trick (two different e values)? |
| 04:03:47 | adam3us: | gmaxwell: (multisig 1 of 2) |
| 04:05:27 | adam3us: | btw this article from jesse powell (ceo of kraken) seems more plausible theory about mtgox http://jesse.forthewin.com/blog/2014/02/unilateral-statement-regarding-fucked-up-shit-and-the-greater-good.html |
| 04:05:35 | gmaxwell: | well only if the transaction are just pays 100% / 100%.. but what if some of the payoffs were like 50/50 and so you must constrain the outputs. |
| 04:06:49 | adam3us: | gmaxwell: doesnt constraining things require knowledge of the hash, invalidating the blinding? |
| 04:07:02 | gmaxwell: | it's not blind to andy and I, but it's blind to you. |
| 04:07:13 | adam3us: | particularly this bit of speculation "Gox was robbed of a massive amount of coins (800k+) at some prior point in time, possibly June 2011, and has been operating a fractional reserve since." |
| 04:07:35 | adam3us: | "Gox determined that it was better to continue operating the exchange, probably both for the sake of Bitcoin, and for their customers who would eventually be made whole from fees earned." |
| 04:07:48 | gmaxwell: | I don't know thats thats plauable to me either. because you're not going make whole from fees 800k of coin. |
| 04:07:58 | [\\\]: | +1 |
| 04:08:48 | Luke-Jr: | adam3us: hey, is it okay if I book SJC for my return flight? |
| 04:09:22 | gmaxwell: | even if you made 1k btc/mo in fees, that would be 66 years of operation... |
| 04:11:28 | andytoshi: | gmaxwell and i could create two txes, one 80/20 to me and the other 20/80 to him, where say the 80% output in both cases can't be spent without adam's cooperation |
| 04:11:31 | adam3us: | gmaxwell: but seemingly when faced with monstrous problems, people will take the ostrich and wishful thinking approach to kick the problem down the road (and also then they can do a bernie madoff and collect untenable profit in the mean time, gamble further with client funds... gambling) |
| 04:11:37 | jgarzik: | gmaxwell, That doesn't really matter. Once you are fractional reserve, the perspective really changes. |
| 04:11:51 | jgarzik: | From the user's perspective, they just care that -they- get their withdrawals. |
| 04:12:25 | jgarzik: | So if you have a sufficient collection of idiots (using for "cold" storage) and active traders, you just have to dog-paddle and keep your head above water. |
| 04:12:54 | jgarzik: | Not saying it's right or moral, but at the end of the day, the reserves matter less than satisfying day-to-day needs, for many users. |
| 04:13:27 | jgarzik: | As long as withdrawals continue to flow, people will not care if MtGox is 1% reserve |
| 04:13:39 | gmaxwell: | sure but if that were the case it would have to all come crumbling down at some point. And maybe there was some reality distortion field that kept that hidden... I suppose you could say the same things about many public instutions... not sustainable. |
| 04:13:51 | jgarzik: | yep |
| 04:13:56 | jgarzik: | palpable irony |
| 04:15:01 | gmaxwell: | I suppose there was also a possiblity of doing something like getting an underground drug market to deposit their coins and get them arrested... or fake a hack of a compeating bucket shop market that was storing their coins on mtgox to makeup the loss.. if you're willing to take all pretext of good behavior away. |
| 04:15:33 | gmaxwell: | maybe when bitcoin was just $10 you thought you could get an investor with $10m ... but it didn't happen. |
| 04:15:37 | adam3us: | jgarzik: i think they might if they knew it, but it could remain undetectable to users that they are fractional, and they could keep going until they hit a bank run scenario. so long as they kept the news flow positive or created reasons for deposits... |
| 04:16:19 | gmaxwell: | actually if it really was a long time ago.. when bitcoin was like $10.. it would have been plausable to have an investor cover it. |
| 04:17:24 | warren: | although not after 8 months of thorough brand tarnishment |
| 04:17:24 | gmaxwell: | it wouldn't have been implausable until the this time last year or so. |
| 04:18:23 | gmaxwell: | warren: I mean, they could have been shopping for an investor from the time of the theft through jan 2013... maybe they even got the $10m and were hoping for the price to go down a bit before buying in with it. |
| 04:18:28 | gmaxwell: | and then the price ran away. |
| 04:19:01 | gmaxwell: | and then they just haven't come to terms with that because it didn't happen all at once. |
| 04:19:32 | gmaxwell: | and then you have to wonder if that (widely believed to be) mtgox triggered crash the first time it got over $200 was actually an accident. |
| 04:20:13 | warren: | I highly doubt they did any of this intentionally. |
| 04:20:14 | gmaxwell: | since it seems abundantly clear that either MT is a massive idiot or they were _intentionally_ trying to crash the shit out of the price a couple weeks ago. |
| 04:20:54 | gmaxwell: | well take your pick, I don't think there was anything worse they could have done which would have after the fact been plausably denyable as their honest position, though maybe I'm being too critical because it shocked me so much. |
| 04:20:55 | warren: | I'm leaning towards idiot. |
| 04:21:00 | Luke-Jr: | what happened a couple weeks ago? |
| 04:21:11 | gmaxwell: | the bitcoin is flaws press release on the 10th. |
| 04:21:17 | gmaxwell: | er s/flaws/flawed/ |
| 04:21:20 | Luke-Jr: | oh |
| 04:21:25 | Luke-Jr: | that long ago already *rubs eyes* |
| 04:21:29 | gmaxwell: | yea I know |
| 04:21:45 | jgarzik: | heh |
| 04:28:12 | maaku_: | makes you wonder if bitcoinbuilder did them in |
| 04:28:52 | maaku_: | by drying up the market on mtgox |
| 04:37:54 | adam3us: | warren: the self-sabotaging brand mismanagement was nuts. seems like their worst enemy was their own management. though if they were hiding much worse stuff (multi year fractional operation) maybe some of their strange pr would look less stupid with that context |
| 04:38:52 | pigeons: | even though we know they did have banking issues, how much of the "fiat" withdrawal delays causing the price discrepency were realted to just not having enough |
| 04:39:12 | pigeons: | and "oh the US gov seizing millions doesnt hurt us at all" |
| 04:51:06 | Sangheil-: | Sangheil- is now known as Sangheili |
| 04:53:27 | maaku_: | the start of legal action : http://www.goxbux.com/ |
| 04:55:55 | Luke-Jr: | "We Aim To Help" <-- help who? |
| 04:56:13 | Luke-Jr: | "We are 11 individuals affected by Mt.Gox who lost $52,400 + 1362.596 BTC…and growing." <-- really? that's not all that much for 11 people |
| 04:57:40 | copumpkin: | at least they have a pretty website |
| 04:58:53 | BCB: | suspect |
| 04:59:41 | Luke-Jr: | * Luke-Jr sends them an email suggesting they go after law enforcement to find and prosecute the thief |
| 05:04:12 | Emcy_: | are people screaming for regulation yet or not |
| 05:04:32 | BCB: | * BCB reminds them Preet Baraha is on the case |
| 05:04:52 | Luke-Jr: | Emcy_: existing regulations are fine |
| 05:05:10 | Luke-Jr: | I'm screaming for bitcoiners to demand voluntary transparency from exchanges though |
| 05:05:30 | gmaxwell: | maaku_: I think BB actually created a lot of trades, but it also equalized prices between the exchanges somewhat. |
| 05:05:45 | gmaxwell: | maaku_: speaking of BB... it's still operating. |
| 05:06:42 | gmaxwell: | I emailed the guy running it and told him that I'd be concerned that the people with goxbtc there will not have standing to sue mtgox (gox owes them nothing) and will go after him instead, and that he should convince got to let him back in to drop funds back into accounts... and get out of the way. |
| 05:06:47 | gmaxwell: | He was not impressed with my advice. |
| 05:07:42 | copumpkin: | too sensible |
| 05:13:43 | gmaxwell: | well, he's apparently holding 2500 goxbtc— he took all his profits and bought goxcoin. |
| 05:14:42 | copumpkin: | o.O |
| 05:16:50 | phantomcircuit: | gmaxwell, that's hilarious |
| 05:17:08 | phantomcircuit: | the guy was operating an exchange on the basis that their value wasn't 1:1 |
| 05:17:09 | Mike_B: | Is there some commonly accepted way to estimate, even as a first approximation, the percentage of coins that are likely to be lost? I'm thinking you could come up with something half-assedly sensible using days-destroyed or whatever. |
| 05:17:13 | phantomcircuit: | ffs |
| 05:17:43 | Mike_B: | to clarify, i mean "likely to be lost" right now, as in estimate the percentage of coins that are probably parked there forever and not going anywhere |
| 05:18:22 | gmaxwell: | phantomcircuit: well it doesn't have to be 1:1 to make that a good trade.. e.g. if you think you'll get 25% back in recievership and you bought at 10%... |
| 05:18:40 | gmaxwell: | Mike_B: there is no timeframe on the thefts. |
| 05:19:00 | Mike_B: | gmaxwell: i just mean in the abstract sense, completely removed from the gox situation |
| 05:19:32 | Emcy_: | Luke-Jr i read a thing about how someone mathematically proved that madoff was running a colossal scam like ten years before it came down |
| 05:19:42 | Mike_B: | as in, some way to estimate the total percentage of coins in the entire money supply that are probably lost by now |
| 05:19:53 | gmaxwell: | Mike_B: huh? I don't think any actual coins are likely to stop circulating. |
| 05:19:54 | Emcy_: | so what if demanding exchanges open thier books makes the assumption that people care |
| 05:20:09 | gmaxwell: | Mike_B: and no there is no way to measure the overall coins out of circulation at all. |
| 05:20:53 | phantomcircuit: | hmm i need new glasses |
| 05:20:58 | Emcy_: | "Concerns about Madoff's business surfaced as early as 1999, when financial analyst Harry Markopolos informed the SEC that he believed it was legally and mathematically impossible to achieve the gains Madoff claimed to deliver. " |
| 05:20:59 | Mike_B: | gmaxwell: coins will stop circulating if private keys are lost, and that must happen to some percentage of coins every year |
| 05:21:05 | phantomcircuit: | can only barely see the 8pt font 3 ft away |
| 05:21:31 | gmaxwell: | Mike_B: I thought you were still talking about mtgox related things on my second to last message. in my last message I was answering your actual question. |
| 05:24:06 | Mike_B: | k, thanks |
| 05:24:57 | Mike_B: | i thought a good first-approximation estimate might be to consider that wallet A is more likely to be considered "lost" than wallet B if a) A hasn't spent outputs as recently as B, and b) the current balance of A is more than B |
| 05:25:13 | Mike_B: | kind of reminiscent of days-destroyed, but still not sure how to turn those assumptions into a workable model |
| 05:27:13 | gmaxwell: | you can't identify 'wallets' in the blockchain, only addresses. I have coins in my fairly active online wallet that were last moved in 2011. |
| 05:29:28 | just[dead]: | just[dead] is now known as justanotheruser |
| 05:29:34 | Mike_B: | yeah, should have called it an address, but the idea is that it tracks addresses atomically, not individual utxo's within that address being spent |
| 05:32:24 | Mike_B: | obviously this is just a statistical model which would say that the address you're talking about is only "more likely" to be lost than an address with ฿1 in it that was used yesterday |
| 05:33:15 | gmaxwell: | yea, and I'm pointing out that it doesn't work. even a very active wallet may well have lots of really cold utxo. you could get a little entropy out of such a model, but not much. |
| 05:41:29 | Mike_B: | gmaxwell: fair enough. maybe i should think about coins in "effective circulation" rather than trying to assess actual coins being lost |
| 05:41:41 | justanotheruser: | justanotheruser is now known as just[dead] |
| 05:42:07 | qwertyoruiop_: | qwertyoruiop_ is now known as qwertyoruiop |
| 05:42:34 | Mike_B: | or "recent circulation" or etc. the thing I'm thinking of is something more like the convolution of days-destroyed with some kind of causal spreading function, like an EMA, so that days-destroyed spikes "persist" for a while until they die down - but that's still measuring bitcoin-days, not actual coins in circulation, and that's still a few steps removed from an assessment of the total effective money supply. |
| 05:43:33 | just[dead]: | just[dead] is now known as justanotheruser |
| 05:59:13 | justanotheruser: | justanotheruser is now known as just[dead] |
| 06:11:17 | just[dead]: | just[dead] is now known as justanotheruser |
| 06:36:43 | justanotheruser: | justanotheruser is now known as just[dead] |
| 06:46:44 | phantomcircuit: | dear god why is this so hard |
| 06:46:50 | phantomcircuit: | i just want some graphs |
| 08:03:54 | Mike_B: | Mike_B is now known as MagicalTux_ |
| 08:04:01 | MagicalTux_: | MagicalTux_ is now known as Mike_B |
| 08:38:16 | Guest59861: | Guest59861 is now known as aksyn |
| 08:59:48 | edulix_: | edulix_ is now known as edulix |
| 10:20:27 | fanquake: | fanquake has left #bitcoin-wizards |
| 10:46:45 | epscy: | i don't really buy this theory |
| 10:47:02 | epscy: | that gox was operating as a fractional reserve for years |
| 12:17:28 | Emcy_: | that would take enormous balls |
| 13:51:32 | amiller: | petertodd, are you legally a full-time employee of Mastercoin or an independent consultant contracting for them? |
| 13:52:05 | amiller: | I'm just curious, I'm not sure why it even matters, but their blog post indicated you were a full time employee |
| 13:52:09 | amiller: | http://blog.mastercoin.org/2013/12/06/first-full-time-scientistdeveloper-hired-peter-todd/ |
| 14:00:38 | petertodd: | amiller: well, I've never signed anything, so I'm taking the position I'm consulting for them |
| 14:02:07 | petertodd: | just[dead]: re: coinbase's consensus, I don't make tx's with the intent of forking them, rather I just make ones that I know it's highly likely that an alt-implementation would get wrong because they're not obvious |
| 14:08:53 | wallet42: | petertodd: mastecoin will use OP_RETURN, do they have defined some 4byte prefix for their messages? |
| 14:10:41 | petertodd: | wallet42: no, and mastercoin doesn't only use op_return |
| 14:11:22 | wallet42: | i know, they use multisig too, but i was told on a conference that they will use op_return soon |
| 14:11:38 | petertodd: | maaku_: https://s3.amazonaws.com/peter.todd/1-287793.dups.bz2 <- dups thing, record holder is a satoshidice addr with 288,580 dups of 0.01 btc (!) |
| 14:12:11 | petertodd: | wallet42: op_return will be supported sure, but support for other encoding will be kept too, even non-provably unspendable |
| 14:15:19 | petertodd: | maaku_: funny stat: there's 20 txouts with the dust-b-gone bare OP_RETURN scriptPubKey format |
| 14:24:56 | wallet42: | how many txos are we haing right this moment? |
| 14:25:27 | petertodd: | 9,328,072 or ~325mb |
| 14:26:07 | wallet42: | whats the struct? |
| 14:26:17 | petertodd: | bitcoind gettxoutsetinfo <- command ot get that |
| 14:26:24 | petertodd: | struct? |
| 14:26:41 | wallet42: | the data structure |
| 14:26:53 | petertodd: | leveldb database |
| 14:27:34 | wallet42: | indexed by txid:vout i assume |
| 14:27:45 | petertodd: | yup |
| 14:27:54 | wallet42: | and contents is value_satoshi + scruptPubkey |
| 14:28:11 | sipa: | indexed by txid, actually |
| 14:28:30 | wallet42: | okay so you store {txid: [ |
| 14:28:32 | sipa: | and the value is txversion, txiscoinbase, height + list of unspent outputs |
| 14:28:38 | wallet42: | thx |
| 14:28:44 | sipa: | see coins.h |
| 14:29:32 | wallet42: | i would really love to read more source to get answers to the basic questions and not bother you about that, but it so hard to find the "where to look" |
| 14:29:56 | sipa: | i'll gladly tell you where to find what :) |
| 14:30:35 | wallet42: | okay :) |
| 15:49:46 | stonecoldpat: | just to confirm - zerocoin is not being used by anyone at the moment? |
| 16:00:24 | stonecoldpat: | never mind, just seen the website (they released an alpha implementation of it) |
| 16:48:56 | mike4: | mike4 is now known as c--O-O |
| 16:59:54 | zooko: | Anybody here going to TrustyCon today? |
| 17:00:25 | weex: | zooko: not me but have you looked at maidsafe? seems like it's up your alley |
| 17:19:21 | zooko: | weex: I've heard about it a couple of times. |
| 17:19:31 | zooko: | weex: the CEO (or someone) from there posted to a mailing list that I run: |
| 17:20:08 | zooko: | http://lists.zooko.com/pipermail/p2p-hackers/2014-January/003196.html |
| 17:22:13 | zooko: | bye for now |
| 17:24:41 | adam3us: | people seem to be claiming from analysis that mtgox might still have 400k btc. analysis is probably a bit imprecise. speculation is that they lost the private key, or it is stored in a bank vault and legal issues (eg court case and gag order for reimbursement of funds) has caused the bank to bar access, and bar Karpeles from talking about it.. hmm. it sure would be good to get some better analysis of the gox address |
| 17:24:51 | adam3us: | http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1z37zw/mt_gox_has_at_least_200k_btc/ |
| 17:28:37 | Guest94002: | Guest94002 is now known as UukGoblin |
| 17:29:42 | gmaxwell: | adam3us: I have pretty low confidence in those clames, some of the people pumping them have resorted to outright lying about things I've said in order to promote them. |
| 17:30:10 | gmaxwell: | They appear to basically be arm waving, so far. E.g. point to a random address with a bunch of coin and then say! "See Gox has a bunch of coin!" |
| 17:30:30 | mike4: | mike4 is now known as c--O-O |
| 17:32:19 | gmaxwell: | adam3us: TBH I think that it'll be impossible to get good science while there are so many people trying to be hopeful, and so many other people trying to drive up the price of goxcoins on bitcoin builder to sell them off. |
| 17:32:40 | adam3us: | gmaxwell: yes. i wonder what is publicly derivable. eg from people who logged manually which tx came from gox, or only used gox, or the gox cold/hot wallet implementation characteristics which hint which are gox address and which are not. and also evidence on malleability evidence associated with such addresses. |
| 17:33:56 | gmaxwell: | I mean I posted a list of 580k gox addresses which I was able to determine from prior transactions... but there were only 380 coins available on those. |
| 17:39:03 | pigeons: | i looked at some of the addresses, they say "this is linked to the address gox transacted with to prove solvency" but all of the coins that are coin will be "linked" to gox addresses. they are still gone |
| 17:44:04 | gmaxwell: | pigeons: they're also claiming some 500k BTC transaction was "to prove solvency" but I don't remember any such transaction. MT moved some txn value of 424.2424 or something like that (someone in IRC picked the value) |
| 17:44:57 | pigeons: | i've reached the point where i believe the worst now |
| 17:46:53 | helo: | that the NSA stole all of gox's btc, and will use it to covertly influence the world in an effort to bring about the biblical apocalypse? |
| 17:47:24 | thrasher: | gmaxwell: what about this one? http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1z30q9/gox_has_at_least_50000_btc/ |
| 17:47:26 | phantomcircuit: | helo, lold |
| 17:51:32 | gmaxwell: | thrasher: please go ahead and explain to us how the claim there can be rigorously supported. |
| 17:54:13 | jgarzik: | http://letstalkbitcoin.com/somethings-not-right-at-gox/#.Uw92-tuhWY4 read down the page a bit, RE key mismanagement etc. |
| 17:55:07 | gmaxwell: | That Napoleon is a pumping sleezebag fwiw. |
| 17:55:26 | jgarzik: | * jgarzik doesn't recognize the name |
| 17:57:34 | thrasher: | looks like they may have access to 50k BTC -> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/d3d753578c1043ce3755f097ce96cc2388a08738/src/test/wallet_tests.cpp#L208 // run the 'mtgox' test (see http://blockexplorer.com/tx/29a3efd3ef04f9153d47a990bd7b048a4b2d213daaa5fb8ed670fb85f13bdbcf) // they tried to consolidate 10 50k coins into one 500k coin, and ended up with 50k in change |
| 17:57:45 | Ksipax: | gmaxwell, this is the 42424 transaction https://blockchain.info/zh-cn/tx/3a1b9e330d32fef1ee42f8e86420d2be978bbe0dc5862f17da9027cf9e11f8c4 |
| 17:57:55 | thrasher: | that address still contains 50k BTC |
| 17:58:11 | thrasher: | the other 'linked' accounts I can't be 100% certain |
| 17:59:19 | gmaxwell: | thrasher: I'm aware of the comment in the tests. That was a claim by dooglus from blockchain analysis, I don't know if there is any actual evidence that the txn was MTGox. I'd be happy to see some. |
| 18:00:28 | phantomcircuit: | gmaxwell, im not feeling super optimistic about it |
| 18:20:55 | gmaxwell: | okay, I've been talking to one of these theorists... and it's all rubbish as I thought. |
| 18:21:19 | gmaxwell: | they're basically just starting at the 424k or that 550k transaction on bc.i and clicking around randomly until they find other addresses with lots of coins. |
| 18:21:25 | gmaxwell: | I hate people. |
| 18:21:57 | gmaxwell: | Also talking to these folks is infuriating, all they do is spam me with bc.i links and expect me to magically know what they're thinking. |
| 18:49:43 | gmaxwell: | adam3us: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1z3v4k/claims_that_mtgox_has_a_lot_of_coin_so_far_look/ |
| 19:01:32 | flotsamuel: | flotsamuel is now known as Dizzle |
| 19:16:32 | midnightmagic: | gmaxwell: They can't imagine another way, therefore what they think must be correct. |
| 19:21:25 | jgarzik: | gmaxwell, Take a deep breath :) It is the ultimate treasure hunt, and the Internet elected you as one of the contest judges, or at least a referee ;p |
| 19:31:26 | poggy: | People just can't deal with having no news lol |
| 19:33:28 | poggy: | have to start making it up |
| 19:48:16 | petertodd: | jgarzik: ...and that's why I decided not to get involved :/ |
| 19:53:54 | petertodd: | http://privatecore.com/vcage/ <- sounds like these guys are working on remote attestation w/ OpenStack hardware |
| 19:54:33 | petertodd: | rather doubt the attestation is signed by the mfg though... and !@#$ expensive |
| 19:59:34 | gmaxwell: | petertodd: I just figured you were quite because you were really the mastermind behind all of it. |
| 20:00:33 | petertodd: | gmaxwell: the new porsche, gold chains, and babes hanging around my apartment are entirely coincidental |
| 20:02:14 | gmaxwell: | hehehe |
| 20:03:25 | petertodd: | http://privatecore.com/resources-overview/datasheet/ <- I suspect theyre might be making use of cache ram by encrypting it before it goes out the bus |
| 20:28:42 | phantomcircuit: | anybody in here running the bootstrap.dat torrent |
| 20:28:48 | phantomcircuit: | the trackers are failing |
| 20:53:28 | michagogo|cloud: | phantomcircuit: I am |
| 20:53:46 | michagogo|cloud: | Uploading to about 6-7 peers atm |
| 20:54:41 | michagogo|cloud: | ~200 seeds and ~33 peers on http://exodus.desync.com:6969/announce |
| 20:55:15 | michagogo|cloud: | As well as ~133 seeds and ~28 peers on udp://tracker.istole.it:80 |
| 20:55:43 | phantomcircuit: | michagogo|cloud, exodus seems to be the only working tracker |
| 20:55:53 | michagogo|cloud: | I just updated istole.it |
| 20:55:58 | phantomcircuit: | ah |
| 20:56:00 | michagogo|cloud: | My client claims it's working |
| 20:56:03 | phantomcircuit: | yeah that ones working also |
| 20:56:17 | phantomcircuit: | jgarzik, can you add exodus to the magnet link? |
| 20:56:36 | michagogo|cloud: | It isn't in there? |
| 20:56:36 | jgarzik: | sure |
| 20:56:55 | michagogo|cloud: | guess not |
| 20:57:12 | jgarzik: | will add it on the next torrent update |
| 20:57:16 | phantomcircuit: | michagogo|cloud, it's in the torrent file but not the magnet link |
| 20:57:42 | phantomcircuit: | right about now im wishing i had popped for that 10gbps line |
| 21:00:13 | phantomcircuit: | michagogo|cloud, only 128 seeders on istole.it |
| 21:00:53 | michagogo|cloud: | phantomcircuit: that's what I said |
| 21:01:10 | michagogo|cloud: | (I also have 201 seeds in DHT and 365 seeds in PEX) |
| 21:01:23 | phantomcircuit: | ah |
| 21:16:22 | phantomcircuit: | much much better |
| 21:16:29 | phantomcircuit: | 8MB/s download vs 500 KiB/s |
| 22:21:15 | midnightmagic: | i never understood why people think babes just arrive when you're rich. is there a babe-store or something for rich people? how do they even know you're rich? and if they know, why would you trust them to be around at all? |
| 22:21:20 | midnightmagic: | so confusing |
| 22:22:19 | weex: | you have to buy a hot car, i'm told |
| 22:22:45 | phantomcircuit: | midnightmagic, buy an expensive car |
| 22:22:55 | phantomcircuit: | generally act like a total asshat |
| 22:23:12 | phantomcircuit: | some how it's acceptable when your rich |
| 22:23:52 | gmaxwell: | Reasons to avoid signaling that you have any money at all for $1000, alex. Oh wait. If I answer this right I'll get $1000, thats no good. |
| 22:25:35 | phantomcircuit: | gmaxwell, what is dirty skanks who only want your money |
| 22:29:52 | midnightmagic: | http://www.geekosystem.com/science-explains-rich-jerks/ |
| 22:31:58 | gmaxwell: | meh, kinda crappy article. |
| 22:32:27 | gmaxwell: | There is a bias that just comes from the fact that jerks are more visible. |
| 22:32:45 | midnightmagic: | :-) |
| 23:09:04 | edulix: | edulix is now known as Edulix |
| 23:09:08 | Edulix: | Edulix is now known as Eduli |
| 23:09:10 | Eduli: | Eduli is now known as Edulix |
| 23:15:36 | just[dead]: | just[dead] is now known as justanotheruser |