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02:06:53WOODMAN:hey i have an idea
02:07:14WOODMAN:a payment system for bitcoin where the major partner in business isnt visa or mastercard
02:08:15WOODMAN:and those that follow in their footstep is merely an exchange, that pulls damage control with enumeration of email and makes excuses that hey google and facebook and the parters in crime and spying and with the nsa and the backdoors do it so we can too!
02:08:46WOODMAN:so anyways, im going to take em all on and revolutionize bitcoin as we know it
02:08:53WOODMAN:so in search of a team
03:17:55kanzure:andytoshi: nice meeting you
04:33:39phrackage:Before I go making up my own DB - is there any online service or API that allows me to get the fiat equivalent of historical blockchain transactions (for a couple of popular exchanges)?
04:34:11phrackage:Blockchain.info shows you the _current_ value and only on the website, not via API
04:34:32tlrobinson_:tlrobinson_ is now known as tlrobinson
05:11:42BCB:phrackage, doing taxes?
05:12:19phrackage:for example
05:12:52BCB:phrackage, http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/bitstampUSD#rg60ztgSzm1g10zm2g25zv
05:14:00phrackage:BCB: yeah that's just one graph though, I mean something more like "at 13:00 on Jan 5th, what were the AUD, GBP, EUR, USD rates on major exchanges"
05:14:16phrackage:I suppose I could use the USD value and then use a basket of exchange rates for the other currencies
05:15:07BCB:that data is available on that site. Don't know where it would be correlated already
05:15:15andytoshi:kanzure: you too!
05:15:59andytoshi:Luke-Jr: it should be 'unsent', if i said 'unsigned' that was a brainfart..
05:16:44BCB:phrackage, http://bitcoincharts.com/about/markets-api/
05:17:25phrackage:ok thanks BCB
05:20:00andytoshi:ditto for inputs-exceeding-output...i have fixed both typos in the online version of alts.pdf
05:22:34Luke-Jr:andytoshi: and wiki copy? :P
05:49:35gmaxwell:paperbot: http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/login.jsp?tp=&arnumber=5184997
05:51:31gmaxwell:aww paperbot has failed me
05:54:49gmaxwell:Kinda OT but I imagine some of you might have seen the polypass article on slashdot today; I think it's only mostly pointless. here is the email I sent to the author: http://0bin.net/paste/wP6wOzhgsr1MiJz2#Zd9oAWov0Sye7CBTV/hkCfsy/fekoIAxntqyYK87rm8=
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16:18:37kanzure:gmaxwell: when paperbot fails you and the reason is obvious, bug reports would be nice: https://github.com/kanzure/paperbot/issues (of course, sometimes the cause is not obvious)
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16:46:25Ademan:gmaxwell: polypass?
16:53:26Ademan:nvm, found "polypasshash" in pastebin and was able to find polypasshash
17:31:38Emcy:is that better or worse than multipass
18:57:41gmaxwell:anyone happen to have figured out what digital signature algorithim they're using on boarding passes these days?
18:58:02gmaxwell:("flight coin: mint coins by obtaining airline boarding passes")
19:17:18Ademan:send me away if this is OT, but has anyone given thought to what the "best" mask pattern would be for paper wallets to prevent reading via light? I was thinking a random pattern of blocks of the same size as the qr code... but for that to actually work they'd have to be folded super precisely to line up correctly, maybe instead, also add a small translation and rotation to the mask?
19:19:18kazcw:qr codes have high redundancy; any solution other than highly-effective optical firewalling in the wallet is dangerous
19:19:21Ademan:by "reading via light" I mean "reading by holding the wallet up to a strong light" before anyone gets super pedantic on me
19:19:41kazcw:i.e. opaque things on both sides
19:20:10gmaxwell:Ademan: so you might want to spend some time reading patents for scratch off lottery cards. You will be depressed.
19:20:31gmaxwell:Apparently they consider it important to build things which are strong against x-ray interogation of the ink density and things like that.
19:20:35gmaxwell:"Good luck"
19:21:02Ademan:that sounded more like "don't even try" :-p
19:21:07kazcw:the best paper wallet is a lead block
19:21:35Ademan:well in that case, is BIP 38 any good? I recall someone objecting to it being developed "in secret"
19:22:35gmaxwell:It has a lot of stupid limitations, I don't consider it very good, and it's author would do it differently if doing it again.
19:23:01gmaxwell:Basically it was just posted to the BIP pages without any public discussion at all because the author wasn't subscribed to the list when he tried posting.
19:23:38gmaxwell:In particular, since it only code a single key and not a wallet, there are a lot of applications where it flat out shouldn't be used.
19:24:07Ademan:it seems to have become a de-facto standard though, or at least I've seen support in a number of places
19:24:18gmaxwell:yea, unfortunately.
19:24:52gmaxwell:I expect it'll get replaced once HD wallet based stuff becomes popular.
19:24:54Ademan:nobody is interested in developing BIP0038.1 to supercede it though? or is that too disruptive? It's not that old at all...
19:25:37Ademan:wait maybe it is...
19:26:07helo:TIL gmaxwell is on the no-fly list (jk)
19:26:15gmaxwell:Ademan: there is a proposal: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=258678.0
19:26:41gmaxwell:helo: so apparently the signatures are 172 bytes of base-64 encoded data. this is very interesting and odd.
19:26:41Ademan:20-11-2012 that's well before my time, interesting (also that date format is alien to me)
19:27:22helo:so they probably rolled their own i.e. probably screwed something up
19:27:53Ademan:I'm sure there's an interesting hysterical raisin behind that, even if it's just an intern...
19:28:10gmaxwell:Ademan: slavish copying from the python stuff apparently.
19:29:46gmaxwell:well 172 bytes = 1024 bits. Which suggests 512 bit DSA. If it's ECDSA it's odd they used such a large curve. If it's a integer field, uhhhh 512 bits isn't secure. or perhaps it's 192 bit EC and codes a public key and two signatures for some PKIish thing.
19:30:45gmaxwell:or maybe 256 bit ECC and they code r,s,r,s first for a signature of the message, from which they recover the public key, than they have a signature of that public key with some CA key.
19:31:02Ademan:gmaxwell: for the date? that's interesting... I never noticed that but yeah PEPs created date is displayed DD-MM-YYYY, but modification date is MM-DD-YY HH:MM:SS -TZOF
19:32:30Ademan:or maybe it's just a text field when you make a PEP, PEP 467 for example has Created: 2014-03-30 *shrug*
19:32:36midnightmagic:i hate people who use backwards ambiguous dates
19:34:06kazcw:they should have used the standard formatting for backwards dates: 20\11\2012
19:34:43Ademan:as an american I thought it was 20/11/2012
19:35:34midnightmagic:most to least significant if it's numbers god dammit!
19:35:56Ademan:er sorry no, 11/20/2012 as an american
19:36:04midnightmagic:* midnightmagic runs and hides from right-to-left language readers
19:36:10Ademan:but yeah, I do YYYY-MM-DD whenever I can
19:36:33kazcw:yeah, little endian is the one true date format
19:38:36midnightmagic:* midnightmagic loves Ademan therefore
19:44:28Ademan:* Ademan doesn't want to complicate the relationship with love, wants to stay friends but thinks midnightmagic is great
19:45:06Ademan::-p. Now I'll stop being OT before anyone says anything
19:56:36gmaxwell:NIST SHA3 mailing list had a post with the proposed final SHA3 spec this morning: http://csrc.nist.gov/groups/ST/hash/sha-3/documents/fips202_sha3_standard_draft_Apr2014.pdf
19:56:59gmaxwell:public comment period will begin after it makes its way into the federal register apparently.
20:18:11adam3us:petertodd: isnt tree chain in the direction of committed tx, ie validation done by users, who need to be full nodes to participate?
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20:49:47jrmithdobbs:Data.Foldable conflicts with prelude on like 40% of what it defines iirc
20:50:03jrmithdobbs:some day i will move this out of the same window as #haskell
20:56:12phantomcircuit:petertodd, with petertodd/python-bitcoinlib how would you check that an address is valid?
21:05:15phantomcircuit:oh wow
21:05:24phantomcircuit:peter has the balls to send out an annual letter
21:08:57maaku_:ah, i'm not on peter's mailing list :(
21:19:23Ademan:phantomcircuit: after refactoring a good portion of python-bitcoinlib, I started looking hard at richardkiss' pycoin and it looks to be about what I would have refactored python-bitcoinlib into (as a long time python user) fwiw
21:19:54Ademan:I haven't used pycoin enough to actually recommend it at this point, but I like what I've seen
21:42:42gmaxwell:If zooko were here I'd point him to http://coitweb.uncc.edu/~yonwang/papers/ldpcsss.pdf where in they describe perfect n of m (for some n and m) threshold secret sharing that involve only bitwise xor in encode/decode (and give a concrete example of a code for 3,11) which seems relevant to his interests.
21:44:51jrmithdobbs:gmaxwell: you're aware he's on freenode regularly right? just not in here
21:46:04jrmithdobbs:i spammed him in #tahoe-lafs for you but he's not active atm ;p
21:46:58gmaxwell:he's often in here.
21:47:35jrmithdobbs:he always idles in there
22:14:56kanzure:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodhart's_law except hash rate seems to help?
22:30:15petertodd:adam3us: is can be, it can also be done with miner validation
22:30:22petertodd:phantomcircuit: annual letter?
22:32:11petertodd:phantomcircuit: CBitcoinAddress checks checksums; I think I have it check the version bytes too, but I may be mistaken there
22:32:52petertodd:phantomcircuit: (there's a lot of stuff w/ python-bitcoinlib that I haven't personally had a need for, otoh what I have needed it for is pretty specificly highly low-level stuff)
22:33:12phantomcircuit:petertodd, foundation stuff
22:33:32phantomcircuit:maaku_, https://bitcoinfoundation.org/blog/?p=679
22:33:45petertodd:phantomcircuit: ah, different peter
22:34:54Luke-Jr:petertodd: you sent it while you were asleep! :P
22:35:10petertodd:"Colored coins, black-listing, red-listing and other proposals all want to add memory to our coins" <- if I were killerstorm I'd be pissed at the continual linking of colored coins to blacklists
22:35:33petertodd:hell, I eventually got him to agree that making CCoin encoding compatible with coinjoin was a good idea
22:36:43Luke-Jr:more annoyingly, he granted Matonis a free 1 year extension on his term
22:37:37Luke-Jr:I wonder why he thinks "the possibility of massive turnover every few years" is a bad thing
22:41:32phantomcircuit:Luke-Jr, who are the industry members now anyways?
22:41:50Luke-Jr:phantomcircuit: Meyer Malka
22:41:53Luke-Jr:is the only one
22:42:03phantomcircuit:not the board members
22:42:06petertodd:Ademan: see, I kept python-bitcoinlib very close to the satoshi codebase when I "pythonized" it
22:42:07phantomcircuit:the actual industry members
22:42:17phantomcircuit:who can vote the the two newly created seats
22:42:24petertodd:Ademan: I also have a clear separation between consensus critical and non-consensus critical
22:42:48Luke-Jr:phantomcircuit: oh, https://members.bitcoinfoundation.org/current
23:02:27Ademan:petertodd: I didn't mean to diminish your efforts, I figure API preference is pretty subjective anyways.
23:05:30petertodd:Ademan: nor did I :) python-bitcoinlib is certainly intimidating for some classes of users - not everyone's goals for a bitcoin library is "make crazy test cases" :)
23:06:26petertodd:Ademan: a great example is the bloom filter support, which was written to test the bloom io exploit - which is why I haven't gotten around to implementing merkle transactions yet to make it useful for something other than exploits
23:20:21petertodd:"python-bitcoinlib - The #1 choice for people who want to break shit, fast!"
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23:56:44Luke-Jr:sipa: #bitcoin-dev ?