01:10:12amiller:whoa ralph merkle joining ethereum is weird
01:13:03amiller:https://twitter.com/ethereumcharles/status/463794004492951552 not that there's any more detail about it than this tweet
01:27:16tacotime:amiller: I half expect to hear that they've resurrected Turing and that he's joining up now, too.
01:27:49amiller:turns out he was a digitally autonomous corporation all along
03:03:25petertodd:also don't assume merkle actually knows much about cryptocurrencies
03:04:00petertodd:and for that matter, ethereum isn't an unreasonable idea
03:20:22Luke-Jr:I agree with petertodd on this: Ethereum isn't bad as a concept; it's just the way they're trying to monetise it, and make a scamcoin of it, that's the problem
03:31:13ghtdak:ghtdak has left #bitcoin-wizards
03:46:55phantomcircuit:Luke-Jr, they keep pretending like it's guaranteed to work.. which is the issue
06:29:22justanotheruser:Is there a way to make tx with scripts like 2+2=? spendable only if you solve them (and prevent miners from getting the rewards?
06:29:39justanotheruser:In a future bitcoin of course
06:30:11justanotheruser:Maybe a zero knowledge proof or something
06:35:35ebfull:justanotheruser: afaik they're called SNARKs
06:36:16justanotheruser:ebfull: will read thanks
06:36:57gmaxwell:justanotheruser: sure, just set the solver in advance and require the solver to provide the solution and a signature. (meets the constraints you provided)
06:37:30gmaxwell:(which is actually quite useful in many cases, though not all)
06:37:58justanotheruser:gmaxwell: wouldn't that open the network to an attack where users just keep pretending to solve, and not actually proving?
06:40:10gmaxwell:justanotheruser: not sure where our misunderstanding is... did you miss the "solution AND a signature"?
06:40:36gmaxwell:the miners will know the solution, but its useless to them because they cannot provide the signature.
06:41:00justanotheruser:gmaxwell: what do you mean set the solver in advance?
06:42:09gmaxwell:like I'm going to pay you if and only if you give me the answer to 2+2. Okay so I write a script where you must provide the answer to 2+2 and a signature with your key. (for more fun it should also have a timelocked refund path, but we'll ignore that for the moment)
06:42:55justanotheruser:gmaxwell: oh, I was referring to anyone can solve
06:44:54gmaxwell:then know, for the reason you understood— not without a zkp being verified by nodes. Though note, know in advance can still be functionally anyone can solve, you just need to have a process for someone offering to step up and claim it, it just requires interaction.
06:47:01justanotheruser:gmaxwell: is it possible without interaction
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11:19:13stonecoldpat:when referring to bitcoins, what is the preferred word among the community? bitcoins or coins?
11:20:13sipa:#bitcoin please
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19:10:05Eliel_:Is there an analysis of the strength and weaknesses of the PoS approach Nxt has taken somewhere?
19:11:13jgarzik:there really needs to be a bitcoin-wizards FAQ
19:11:40jgarzik:this gets covered repeatedly in IRC, but fails to get captured in a blog post or whatever
19:12:02sipa:it suffers from the nothing at stake problem, no?
19:12:28sipa:if so, i just consider it fundamentally brokemn
19:12:36hearn:jgarzik: imo we need a technical FAQ, full stop. the bitcoin.org FAQ is just for end users
19:18:12Eliel_:that sounds like a good idea :)
19:20:16Luke-Jr:andytoshi has an incomplete altcoin FAQ
19:27:52waxwing:Luke-Jr, thanks looks like an interesting read. treatise != faq though :)
19:41:22Eliel_:Luke-Jr: it doesn't actually discuss altcoins, though. It does make a good point on why it's dangerous to just start modifying the system though.
19:42:44petertodd:Eliel_: note that there isn't actually as much agreement as you might expect about how even bitcoin actually works; a FAQ would be a set of arguments, not "facts" per-se
19:44:36petertodd:Eliel_: secondly, things like PoS, while (probably) fundementally weak by bitcoin/cryptocurrency standards, have analogous constructs in non-cryptocurrency systems where they are considered good enough
19:46:19andytoshi:Eliel_: i have a short blurb an PoS at the end of https://download.wpsoftware.net/bitcoin/asic-faq.pdf
19:46:32andytoshi:and someday alts.pdf will actually discuss altcoins :)
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