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05:09:54justanotheruser:Thoughts on NTRU sigs?
05:11:29tacotime:they came up a while ago for mc2
05:12:00tacotime:but iirc either the pubkeys or the sigs or both were much much larger than for ecdsa so i'd dismissed them
05:12:22justanotheruser:tacotime: how big?
05:12:22tacotime:(at comparable levels of security)
05:12:53justanotheruser:Yes, how big for 128 bits of security?
05:14:19tacotime:which i saved the reference for that, sigh
05:15:10tacotime:and i didn't include sig size, maybe it's small but i don't remember, it was a year ago
05:16:09tacotime:also it's patented. but in theory you could use it for a blockchain signature scheme, i'm sure.
05:16:39justanotheruser:tacotime: yeah, it is big but not massive like some post quantum keys.
05:17:01justanotheruser:When its needed I'm sure it will be used.
05:17:09tacotime:yeah, i would say it's probably the most usable.
07:08:56gmaxwell:NTRU scheme has kind of some sketchy security assumptions classically, and the size IIRC wasn't really compelling compared to a state of the art Winternitz compressed hash signature.
07:09:22gmaxwell:(plus the hash signatures, even with winternitz compression, are very fast and can be implemented by anyone easily)
07:09:36gmaxwell:so I didn't really see a selling point for NTRU for bitcoin applications.
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07:59:39warren:read section 7.2
07:59:42warren:lots of bullshit
07:59:55warren:"It surprising to discover that Satoshi did NOT introduce a transaction
07:59:55warren:timestamp in bitcoin software. It is NOT known WHY neither the original
07:59:56warren:creator of bitcoin nor later bitcoin developers did not mandate one."
08:01:24gmaxwell:the author of the paper was the one of the authors of the XLS attacks on AES which were super highly overhypted (but at least good research)
08:01:48gmaxwell:Bytecoin made a pretty cutting remark about the paper being crap on bitcointalk.
08:02:12warren:7.2 in particular suggests the author really doesn't understand Bitcoin
08:09:33warren:I see the bitcointalk thread
08:32:24Eliel_:whoah, the writer of that paper seems to miss the point of blockchain entirely while on the other hand kind of getting it and claiming it doesn't work (the arguments didn't convince me though). Very strange way to misunderstand.
08:36:26gmaxwell:er XSL above. dyslexia night, so much easier to spot when I'm reading it back and think someone else wrote it. :)
08:36:57Eliel_:although, I just realized that what bitcoin uses blockchain for isn't actually purely timestamping. If it was, you wouldn't have transactions waiting hours before being included and getting a "timestamp".
08:40:38Eliel_:* Eliel_ wonders if there could be some benefit in separating the timestamp service and the ledger functionalities of blockchain. Timestamp service wouldn't need to include the transaction itself.
08:41:36jtimon:irreversible serialization takes some time to be irreversible
08:42:56jtimon:you could use the same sand/hole analogy I used for merged mining the other day
08:44:02jtimon:bury transactions
09:17:11jtimon:for timestamping, anyone can do it, instantly, private chains, no real need for p2p if you can always fallback to public chains when you suddenly stop trusting the private timestamper
09:18:15jtimon:two phase commit's (old ripple) registries were basically blind timestampers
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14:14:04kanzure:not quite done with my math, but i'm contemplating the cost-effectiveness of homebrewing my own asic http://diyhpl.us/wiki/homecmos/bitcoin
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18:05:00amiller:jgarzik, i'll be giving my talk about Permacoin at the IEEE S&P security conference right at that time, I'm trying to figure out how to work dakami's bet into my presentation somehow.
18:08:19michagogo|cloud:Btw, did you actually find someone and put the 20BTC in escrow?
18:15:39amiller:uh no, not in this case, i don't think it's necessary because the bet concerns two fairly public figures and i have lots of twitter evidence, their reputations are in escrow :p
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18:18:43michagogo|cloud:amiller: didn't one of them mention finding someone to hold the BTC?
18:19:04michagogo|cloud:(Or wanting to?)
18:19:08amiller:not that i know of? if so then i might not have been paying close enough attention
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18:26:10michagogo|cloud:amiller: https://mobile.twitter.com/jgarzik/status/336210942717214720
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22:33:37amiller:ugh using pinocchio is such a pain in the ass
22:34:00amiller:hardly any of C is supported so i can't use nested structs to organize code and maintain sanity, everything has to be flat arrays
22:34:30amiller:i can't compute more than 10 sha1's at once without generating such a big circuit that it crashes any machine i try to run it on
22:44:55amiller:maybe tinyram will be more robust ;o
22:54:33gmaxwell:well at least the circuit size doesn't really increase much with the program size!