00:08:21gmaxwell:maaku: next to get compcert under a reasonable license.
00:10:16alferz:Why couldn't some of the underlying principles of P2Pool be built into the bitcoin network itself? Wouldn't that be a good way to eliminate pool-middlemen and preserve the decentralized network that bitcoin was intended to be?
00:11:15gmaxwell:alferz: P2pool already exists, it works without being built into anything.
00:11:49alferz:except that users have to choose to use it. if it was built into the network, there wouldnt be a choice?
00:12:29gmaxwell:sure there would be, people would just put centeralized pools on top of it and presumably people would just keep using those.
00:12:54gmaxwell:alternatively, I can turn that argument around— not having a choice precludes doing something better…
00:13:50alferz:well my thought was that users could just point their miners at their own node at that point. there would be no need for pools and the fees and centralized power they bring. in fact it would probably be easier for users than keeping track of another account and losing 1-2% to fees
00:14:44gmaxwell:They can already do that.
00:15:29[nsh]:ability is not propensity. there is an argument for increasing the propensity of people towards p2p pooling through soft(ware) measures
00:15:36alferz:true but with variance and high difficulty they never see any rewards. that why they turn to the pools. but with p2pool principles you could have a secondary share chain so even solo miners would get paid regularly
00:21:46midnightmagic:alferz: they could, and it could be done if someone were to write a C++ or C module which could be included in mainline with just a more configurable or better way for p2pool islands to find one another.
00:22:19gmaxwell:alferz: Thats precisely what p2pool already is, it exists and works today and is available to anyone who wants to use it.
00:22:51gmaxwell:alferz: and p2pool pays ~every day.
00:24:23midnightmagic:alferz: They do see rewards, and p2pool blocks have a very very low orphan rate due to the awesome propagation tricks it uses.
00:28:32alferz:oh yeah i agree i meant if they were solo mining at the network diff which of course nobody does. Yeah i'm glad people do have a choice, just trying to brainstorm ways to eliminate the mega-pools. or rather eliminate the need for them
00:30:04alferz:big orgs (monopolies) have a tendency to get even bigger. and we dont have glass-steagal to help us out in this arena =D
00:30:54shesek:midnightmagic, what are the awesome propagation tricks it uses?
00:31:10alferz:or sherman act for that matter
00:32:40midnightmagic:shesek: It propagates p2pool block-solving shares super-fast amongst p2pool nodes, and if it's a winning share the block is submitted locally to every p2pool node there is, which allows for a multi-insertion bitcoin block propagation, which appears to be more successful than the major mining pools.
00:33:53midnightmagic:(who don't really seem to care because they're already making piles of cash and who cares about another couple percent when they're already skimming vast sums in fees
00:34:35midnightmagic:(except for the no-fee ones that aren't making any cash on it like eligius)
00:52:47gmaxwell:shesek: p2pool effectively preforwards transactions and when a block is found only has to send the transaction list and nonce data.
00:53:33gmaxwell:it's not quite that simple, in any case, it relays much faster than the bitcoin network does.
00:59:57maaku:gmaxwell: compcert under a libre license would be amazing
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