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09:02:16sl01:justanotheruser: imagine a program you download that goes through your old bitcoin wallet and pays you for it and has no direct effect on anyhting else, how many people would run that?
09:03:46mappum:sl01: what are you gaining from the old wallets?
09:04:40sl01:mappum: old stake
09:05:42mappum:so it's the people too lazy to spend their old money?
09:07:41sl01:mappum: https://download.wpsoftware.net/bitcoin/pos.pdf
09:18:45justanotheruser:sl01: the assumption is that people wouldn't want to run a program that ruined the value of their current investment.
09:19:14justanotheruser:Imagine a program the you download that runs along side your bitcoin miner and pays you 5% extra.
09:19:36justanotheruser:If we get sufficient people to run this, a large reorg is cheap.
09:36:34sl01:justanotheruser: good counter example although one is an ongoing thing, the other is a one time deal
09:39:11sl01:justanotheruser: also, people can do this after they are no longer invested, whereas miners are generally banking on a future steady income stream
09:40:15justanotheruser:sl01: my assumption was based on everyone on earth using a PoScoin as a standard
09:40:25sl01:justanotheruser: also if shit hit the fan miners would probably turn off this evil 5% awards program pretty quickly, in the PoS example, you can't unsell your old stake
09:41:34sl01:justanotheruser: sure, but tragedy of the commons, theres some % of people who will anonymously sell their old stake for some cash as there is no direct negative effect, i would bet that % is pretty high
09:42:14justanotheruser:sl01: but is it as high as the number of stakers at a given time period?
09:42:51sl01:no idea, also the attakcer has basically an infinite time frame to gather up old stake to perform an attack right?
09:43:28sl01:seems like you need to make a lot of iffy assumptions to be sure your PoS will never get attacked
09:44:17sl01:how do you feel about the security of the username/passwords you used 10 years ago?
09:44:43justanotheruser:sl01: net as good as I feel about the stake used 10 years ago
10:02:11sl01:justanotheruser: thinking more about that 5% evil awards program for miners (because that was though provoking)... how would you make that actually work? couldn't miners just collect the free 5% until they were asked to do an actual attack at which pt they just don't comply?
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18:18:56justanotheruser:sl01: I would only serve them block headers and they wouldn't know whether they were performing the attack unless they modified the client
18:21:34nsh: But aren't the snakes even worse? // Yes, but we're prepared for that. We've lined up a fabulous type of gorilla that thrives on snake meat. // But then we're stuck with gorillas! // No, that's the beautiful part. When wintertime rolls around, the gorillas simply freeze to death.
18:22:28justanotheruser:* justanotheruser checks the context of that metaphor...
18:22:59nsh:just light-heartedly reminded of that by (relatively-)convoluted schemes to ward off attacks
18:48:39zooko:nsh: heh heh
18:49:18nshlike:hey zooko, hope things are on the up :)
18:50:12zooko:Yeah, things are going ok!
18:50:32zooko:How are you?
18:51:05nshlike:my passport was returned to me and my bail rescinded, which is arguably some kind of progress :)
18:51:19zooko:Does that mean you get your money back?
18:51:25nshlike:no money, no more bail
18:52:08nshlike:(but still potentially future charges, extradition attempts)
18:52:34zooko:I'm planning to attend HOPE-X in NYC next week.
18:52:57zooko:Going to join this anti-censorship meetup: http://wiki.hope.net/w/index.php/NoisySquare
18:53:14justanotheruser:nshlike: is your legal issue bitcoin related?
18:54:27nshlike:no, just some stuff happened and some people got embarrassed and some of those people think i might have been involved and it's not really all that important in the grand scheme of things
18:54:34gwillen:zooko: awesome, I'll be at HOPE also
18:57:05nshlike:NoisySquare looks very neat; would be nice to implement similar events locally
18:57:09nshlike:, globally.
18:58:02amiller:i'm curious what's happening right now at the blockstream meetup
19:02:24zooko:amiller: what's that?
19:02:31zooko:gwillen: great! See you there!
19:50:33Grishnakh:amiller who's in the blockstream team?
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21:56:43amiller:Grishnakh, i don't know who's on the blockstream team exactly
22:02:31gmaxwell:amiller: who do you assume anyone does. Cryptocurrency, boo-yah. :P
22:03:02gmaxwell:er why do you assume
22:03:22sipa:crypt == latin for 'hidden'
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