01:14:07tromp__:1 KnC Neptune retails for 10K$. any estimates of cost of manufacture (with R&D amortized over its 18month lifespan) ?
01:14:56tromp__:is 5K$ reasonable estimate?
01:15:45[nsh]:no idea, (out of scope / #bitcoin mebbes)
01:18:25tromp__:(actually price has dropped to 6K$)
01:20:07Luke-Jr:tromp_: off-topic. please take it to #bitcoin-mining or something. (and LOL @ "18 month lifespan")
02:12:51zooko`:zooko` is now known as zooko
02:18:02zooko`:zooko` is now known as zooko
02:31:33zooko`:zooko` is now known as zooko
06:37:02Meeh:Meeh is now known as mikalv
07:01:39mikalv:mikalv is now known as Meeh
07:09:05Meeh:Meeh is now known as mikalv
08:05:15verne.freenode.net:topic is: This channel is not about short-term Bitcoin development | http://bitcoin.ninja/ | This channel is logged at http://download.wpsoftware.net/bitcoin/wizards/. For questions about the logs talk to andytoshi.
08:05:15verne.freenode.net:Users on #bitcoin-wizards: andy-logbot AaronvanW hearn lclc SDCDev jtimon moa damethos CoinMuncher mikalv px1NbxQzEC zling__ cym kruzer_u_a_s jbenet copumpkin TheSeven irc88 OneFixt mortale tacotime Dr-G2 wallet42 jchp_ fanquake Ursium_ Starduster_ realazthat michagogo kinlo shesek Fistful_of_Coins [\\\] andytoshi bobke_ _Iriez eristisk waxwing kmels HaltingState putler samson_ gmaxwell LaptopZZ_ tjopper2 tromp_ gavinandresen epscy Emcy grubles jaekwon go1111111
08:05:15verne.freenode.net:Users on #bitcoin-wizards: LarsLarsen nsh [nsh] justusranvier wiretapped Hunger- dsnrk Graet HM berndj-blackout Transisto spinza digitalmagus maaku_ zenojis Ken` nanotube Keefe SomeoneWeird pajarillo espes___ melvster quackgyver_ mr_burdell Alanius Starsoccer pigeons forrestv Eliel nkuttler so wizkid057 DoctorBTC grandmaster2 CodeShark Gnosis phedny drawingthesun wumpus Krellan__ Guest54659 Pan0ram1x Luke-Jr CryptOprah ryan-c [Derek] @ChanServ mhanne tromp__ danneu burcin
08:05:16verne.freenode.net:Users on #bitcoin-wizards: aynstein poggy jaromil K1773R helo comboy Apocalyptic bbrittain smooth cfields lechuga_ kanzure crescendo BrainOverfl0w lianj BlueMatt zibbo_ asoltys warren dansmith_btc sl01 gwillen throughnothing petertodd catcow Logicwax @sipa rs0 amiller Adohgg weex harrow mmozeiko midnightmagic otoburb UukGoblin optimator abc56889 jcorgan phantomcircuit jgarzik TD-Linux dgenr8 gribble Anduck artifexd Muis BigBitz nickler Sangheili roasbeef pi07r a5m0 super3
08:05:16verne.freenode.net:Users on #bitcoin-wizards: Dyaheon- iddo
10:23:34Dr-G2:Dr-G2 is now known as Dr-G
15:22:23tromp__:finally, some progress on the NXT forging discussion at https://nxtforum.org/general/forging-questions/
15:28:37dsnrk:I find that person very difficult to understand. sort of semi-technical comments interspersed with text speak.
15:32:21tromp__:i only got a reply after messaging several nxt people. seems very few nxt ppl understand its technical underpinnings
15:33:03dsnrk:CfB isn't one of them, from memory they have a fairly loose idea of what is going on
15:35:42dsnrk:I tried to get some basic information out of them when NXT was totally closed source
15:50:53tromp__:oh boy. CfB's last reply is a classic
15:51:06tromp__:"The network converges without problems as u can see."
15:51:36dsnrk:yeah, I'm reading it and.. yeah it's the same sort of thing I got from him before.
17:14:22Eliel:rather sloppy answers those :/
17:16:37tromp__:yeah, i think there's no point in continuing that discussion. they have their heads firmly in the sand
17:21:09iddo:nsh: i'm at crypto2014, what did you want?
17:23:45nsh:to possess you perceptual apparatus with some kind of technovoodoo. it wasn't really clear when i asked
17:24:23nsh:this talk sounded interesting: http://eprint.iacr.org/2014/438
17:25:00nsh:presumably things will make it the 'tubes eventually
17:36:10iddo:nsh: yes that was the first talk and maybe the most interesting, but stateful encryption can have sync problems etc. depending on the scenario
17:37:35nsh:* nsh nods
19:00:36kanzure:pfft so when i say it i get -1 and when gmaxwell says it.. oh well. (kidding)
19:01:11nsh:says what?
19:02:09gmaxwell:on reddit? if its any consolation I was regularly downvoted on r/bitcoin until more people realized who I was and started pointing it out in responses to me.
19:05:06gmaxwell:I took that particular comment as support for moving off of github. :P
19:47:28Eliel:* Eliel wonders if the change is because people now realize you most likely know what you're talking about. Or if it's just because of the title.
19:48:33nsh:i've noticed when i wear my Master of the Universe uniform i get a lot more deference
21:14:08wyager:wyager has left #bitcoin-wizards
21:16:16wyager:wyager has left #bitcoin-wizards
22:27:44justanotheruser:Is there any reason to not have OP_EVAL used to softfork new opcodes in?
23:06:15petertodd:justanotheruser: that's exactly how it should be done
23:10:10sipa:justanotheruser: apart from the fact that we have never softforked new opcodes in, i fully agree :)
23:10:49petertodd:sipa: well, we did softfork the opcode P2SH, a multibyte opcode... :P
23:12:58sipa:i guess it could be interpreted that way
23:13:05sipa:but it wasn't a *new* opcode!
23:13:15sipa:just additional meaning added to an old one
23:13:24petertodd:lol, you could say that
23:15:36sipa:"The multibyte P2SH opcode was actually part of Satoshi's design, and present in v0.1. Due to an implementation bug, it only verified the hash of the redeem script however, rather than full validity of it."
23:17:05petertodd:"Due to an unfortunate git commit mistake, Satoshi released v0.1 without ZKSHARK support"
23:21:50petertodd:nsh: showing cute cryptographers your ZKSHARK scars is a great pickup trick
23:21:55coindeskbro:hey guys what are some of the advantages and disadvantages of micro payment channels?
23:22:24sipa:coindeskbro: advantage: less transactions on-chain; disadvantage: always a small amount of funds at risk
23:22:38petertodd:coindeskbro: in the hub-and-spoke model they give near-zero tx costs, great for scalability
23:23:01petertodd:coindeskbro: main issue is a business one, in that coins - e.g. capital - are tied up, so it becomes a balance of carrying costs vs. lower fees
23:23:12coindeskbro:what do you mean by small funds at risk?
23:24:16sipa:coindeskbro: sorry, this is not a channel for beginners questions; feel free to discuss specific things if you know how payment channels work
23:24:25petertodd:coindeskbro: one interesting thing w/ micro-payment channels is basically any relationship where you deposit funds to a merchant in advance can be usefully turned into them. For instance exchanges can use them to minimize the amount of customer funds they have access to at any one time; great for security.
23:36:51[nsh]:[nsh] is now known as pastor
23:37:10pastor:pastor is now known as [nsh]