01:07:01maaku_:maaku_ is now known as maaku
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02:36:57realazthat:realazthat is now known as Guest10516
02:46:20koshii:nsh: Why is tenary superior IYO?
03:06:14koshii:nsh: Also, neat: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ternary_computer
03:18:31amiller:binary = bits, ternary = tits?
03:23:14grubles:^ ???
03:23:47koshii:I'm into that.
03:51:09cookie:hey guys any feedback is welcome decentralbank.com/whitepaper, it's the second rough draft.
04:54:21fanquake_:fanquake_ is now known as fanquake
06:08:17Dr-G2:Dr-G2 is now known as Dr-G
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08:05:14sinisalo.freenode.net:topic is: This channel is not about short-term Bitcoin development | http://bitcoin.ninja/ | This channel is logged at http://download.wpsoftware.net/bitcoin/wizards/. For questions about the logs talk to andytoshi.
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14:56:29super3:anyone have any stats on how long it takes to verify a hash chain of length n
14:57:24justanotheruser:super3: isn't that just the question of how long it takes a given CPU to calculate N 80 byte hashes?
15:00:53helo:ignoring verification of other data (like transactions)?
15:05:37super3:im using a deterministic chain of seeds for verification of files, the question becomes do i cache the last value to use for the next verification or is the overhead so small that i don't care
15:37:45helo:how does n grow?
17:15:18Dr-G:Dr-G is now known as FBI-Agent
17:27:07super3:linearly with each challenge, so you start with a root seed at n=0, and have n+1 for each additional challenge
17:27:56FBI-Agent:FBI-Agent is now known as Dr-G
20:12:19gmaxwell:andytoshi: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=752260.0
20:14:03andytoshi:gmaxwell: oooh, will read
20:14:09andytoshi:btw do you have a copy of the cryptonote paper i can host?
20:24:33andytoshi:i really like this guy's writing style, he's using latex and tikz and big friendly words
20:31:30zooko:Relevant to the topics of distributed storage, and also to the topic of Ethereum: https://twitter.com/zooko/status/502915794028601346
20:31:33tromp__:cuckoo whitepaper also uses latex&tikz, but probably not as many friendly words:(
20:32:26andytoshi:yeah, i think the font was smaller too ;)
20:33:22gmaxwell:didn't seem he noticed my suggestion of scaling by factoring into three stage switching networks. (e.g. a clos network)
20:38:09zooko:super3: re: https://twitter.com/storjproject/status/502913933326696449 how does this time-lock stuff work?
20:40:53super3:zooko: essentially lock_time
20:42:07super3:zooko: https://bitcoin.org/en/developer-guide#locktime-and-sequence-number
20:43:43super3:but since that is a little used featured, and we are on counterparty we are going to have to a bunch of testing first
20:44:25gmaxwell:locktime by itself can't prevent you from spending funds in a provable way.
20:45:17super3:gmaxwell: what is the best way to accomplish that then?
20:47:59gmaxwell:There is no way to get time locked up funds in bitcoin in a way that has a transferable proof that the funds can't be spent earlier. The best you can do is pay to a n of n multisig, have the signers compute the timelocked refund.. then the signers destroy their keys, but only the signers are really sure they did this... an observer has no proof other than trust in the signers to have really destroyed their keys.
20:48:32gmaxwell:You should also be very careful to use sighash anyone can pay or there is a non-trivial risk that it will be very hard to get the release mined.
20:49:34super3:well if its n of n, then only one signer would have to destroy their keys to to enforce the timelock
20:52:26super3:ok, i think that is a fair play
21:17:54mtrythall:Hello! I am with BotBot.me. I am following up on a request to log this channel. Is there an OP around?
21:19:37andytoshi:mtrythall: hi, i'm running the current (flaky) logging system
21:19:43andytoshi:i think i'm an op, one sec..
21:20:32andytoshi:do you need anything from me?
21:20:40mtrythall:i need your approval to log the channel
21:20:50mtrythall:and Freenode recommends putting the link to the logs in the channel topic.
21:20:58mtrythall:i am not sure what the rules are if you have multiple loggers
21:21:12andytoshi:i'll put them both in for now..
21:21:23andytoshi:if there are concerns, who do i contact about removing logs from botbot?
21:21:35mtrythall:we can usually remove things quickly, within 24 hours
21:21:37andytoshi:ok, you have my approval
21:21:41mtrythall:ok, one moment
21:22:14mtrythall:[d__d]: ping
21:22:14[d__d]:Are you in need of my services, mtrythall?
21:22:18mtrythall:[d__d]: help
21:22:18[d__d]:Available plugins: bangmotivate, help, last_seen, ping, logger (https://botbot.me/freenode/bitcoin-wizards/help/)
21:22:29mtrythall:https://botbot.me/freenode/bitcoin-wizards/ is the URL you'll need
21:22:48andytoshi:awesome, thx so much
21:23:13andytoshi:one sec, i'll change the topic..
21:24:01andytoshi:andytoshi has changed the topic to: This channel is not about short-term Bitcoin development | http://bitcoin.ninja/ | This channel is logged at https://botbot.me/freenode/bitcoin-wizards/ | Ancient logs can also be found at https://download.wpsoftware.net/bitcoin/wizards/. For questions about the logs talk to andytoshi.
21:24:15mtrythall:excellent, thank you :)
21:25:23andytoshi:np, thx for providing a reliable log servwice :)
21:25:53mtrythall:np! if you folks need anything else just reach out: beep@botbot.me or @botbotme on twitter, etc
21:25:56mtrythall:we're also in #lincolnloop
21:26:12andytoshi:great, good to know
21:26:25mtrythall:take care
21:26:33mtrythall:mtrythall has left #bitcoin-wizards
21:49:36BlueMatt:andytoshi: want to just say "this channel is logged" and keep links from bitcoin.ninja?
21:50:28andytoshi:BlueMatt: yeah, that'd be better
21:51:37andytoshi:andytoshi has changed the topic to: This channel is not about short-term Bitcoin development | http://bitcoin.ninja/ | This channel is logged. | For logs and more information, visit http://bitcoin.ninja
21:57:44Anduck:Anduck is now known as anduck
22:11:16Emcy:i cant beleive ninja is a tld now
22:13:09anduck:anduck is now known as Anduck
22:14:52koshii:Emcy: Jealous?
22:15:42Emcy:eh? i think its stupid
22:16:04Emcy:its taken 25 years to get some conception of url structure into the public mind
22:17:07koshii:How does this change that?
22:17:11Emcy:and now we have to start again
22:17:31Emcy:not that urls will matter too much when "the internet" is facebook and google
22:17:34koshii:I don't follow. What does this have to do with URL structure?
22:17:54koshii:emcy.ninja/rest_of_url vs emcy.com/rest_of_url
22:17:57koshii:Pretty much the same thing.
22:18:52Emcy:emcy.ninja is a phishing site
22:19:06Emcy:the CCs were bad enough
22:20:03koshii:Scroll through there and get your mind blown.
22:22:11Emcy:fuck all of that
22:22:45super3:i think we don't have enough tlds...
22:23:03koshii:Emcy: I still don't understand your opposition.
22:26:15helo:is it com.amazon, or amazon.com?!
22:26:47koshii:That's a reasonable example.
22:28:22koshii:But my vague memory of browser usage suggests that most people just google things now.
22:28:44helo:now people can actually register the java class heirarchies of big apps (for example on android), like de.schildbach.wallet
22:29:27helo:while they should be visiting wallet.schildbach.de for the website
22:30:09koshii:Yeah because non-technical people are always accidentally entering the java class hierarchies into the URL bar of their browsers.
22:30:17koshii:(And by the way there is no wallet tld, but that's a great idea)
22:30:36Emcy:cos google didnt have enough power over what people see and dont see
22:30:38helo:they're scattered about the web in various places
22:30:48helo:so it's bound to happen
22:31:04koshii:I don't think that will be a common problem.
23:08:27super3:Emcy: yet