| 05:50:23 | fluffypony: | [nsh]: a wise choice |
| 08:05:18 | wolfe.freenode.net: | topic is: This channel is not about short-term Bitcoin development | http://bitcoin.ninja/ | This channel is logged. | For logs and more information, visit http://bitcoin.ninja |
| 08:05:18 | wolfe.freenode.net: | Users on #bitcoin-wizards: andy-logbot CoinMuncher justanotheruser adam3us gribble cbeams AaronvanW SDCDev RoboTeddy TheSeven pen copumpkin fanquake nanotube arubi a5m0 HaltingState coinheavy Dr-G3 p15 irc88 austinhill Starduster grandmaster2 EasyAt_ wiretapped Luke-Jr todaystomorrow vmatekole Transisto Graftec grishnakh__ altoz ericp4 Kretchfoop Emcy jaekwon CryptOprah artifexd Muis mortale Adlai waxwing samson_ Fistful_of_coins Hunger-- spinza nsh devrandom wizkid057 |
| 08:05:18 | wolfe.freenode.net: | Users on #bitcoin-wizards: nuke1989 BrainOverfl0w Sangheili jchp artilectinc Guest42039 aburan28 wumpus jrayhawk_ jgarzik jasx zwischenzug2 tromp shesek firepacket dgenr8 tacotime arowser go1111111 zenojis LarsLarsen BigBitz emsid Adohgg mkarrer drawingthesun berndj @ChanServ phedny burcin lechuga_ abc56889 Alanius throughnothing harrow DoctorBTC phantomcircuit [nsh] sipa asoltys Taek42 Krellan Nightwolf Anduck forrestv SomeoneWeird bbrittain fluffypony mr_burdell |
| 08:05:18 | wolfe.freenode.net: | Users on #bitcoin-wizards: Apocalyptic lianj pigeons kinlo Graet midnightmagic starsoccer BlueMatt epscy so andytoshi espes__ Logicwax ahmed_ Gnosis Keefe sl01 pajarillo roasbeef mmozeiko ryan-c gwillen otoburb smooth helo [Tristan] TD-Linux catcow danneu UukGoblin poggy_ Meeh LaptopZZ michagogo coryfields NikolaiToryzin Happzz comboy iddo bobke kgk btc_ cfields crescendo amiller_ gmaxwell HM Eliel K1773R pi07r warren [\\\] optimator petertodd kanzure zibbo_ [Derek] |
| 08:05:18 | wolfe.freenode.net: | Users on #bitcoin-wizards: jbenet mappum _2539 MRL-Relay digitalmagus Dyaheon stonecoldpat livegnik hguux lnovy Aquent ebfull hollandais Iriez yoleaux lysobit jcorgan [d__d] |
| 09:11:54 | justanot1eruser: | justanot1eruser is now known as justanotherawayu |
| 09:12:05 | justanotherawayu: | justanotherawayu is now known as justanotheruser |
| 11:46:08 | davidlatapie: | davidlatapie has left #bitcoin-wizards |
| 12:23:57 | Guyver2: | Guyver2 has left #bitcoin-wizards |
| 13:14:16 | davidlatapie: | davidlatapie has left #bitcoin-wizards |
| 15:09:02 | fluffypony: | phantomcircuit / brisque (for your viewing pleasure when you're both around) - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=816141.0 |
| 15:14:20 | Happzz: | that chanserv spam when the bouncer reconnects |
| 15:14:21 | Happzz: | lol |
| 15:14:24 | Happzz: | ;;tlast |
| 15:14:25 | gribble: | 345.27 |
| 15:14:29 | Happzz: | UP UP |
| 15:14:31 | Happzz: | sup fluffypony |
| 15:16:44 | ahmed_: | ahmed_ is now known as ahmed_vegas |
| 15:44:18 | Dr-G3: | Dr-G3 is now known as Dr-G2 |
| 15:45:17 | X-Scale`: | X-Scale` has left #bitcoin-wizards |
| 16:45:35 | tacotime: | https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=816141.0 |
| 16:45:41 | tacotime: | that didn't take long. |
| 16:46:18 | tacotime: | has anyone actually reviewed "darksend" since it was foss'd? |
| 17:08:54 | gmaxwell: | I had no idea they did. |
| 17:32:15 | andytoshi: | there were some replies to https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/29471/is-there-any-true-anonymous-cryptocurrencies hinting that they had/were going to |
| 17:58:07 | gmaxwell: | oh I knew they'd been saying they were going to. |
| 18:00:24 | wumpus: | tacotime: where is the code? |
| 18:02:50 | tacotime: | good question |
| 18:03:07 | tacotime: | https://github.com/darkcoin/darkcoin/blob/master/src/darksend.cpp |
| 18:04:30 | tacotime: | 1800 lines nnn |
| 18:04:53 | wumpus: | thanks |
| 18:11:43 | tacotime: | As near as I can tell you just denominate funds and send it to a node who trust will mix up your outputs into a transaction in another node while preserving destinations locally, then rinse and repeat. |
| 19:46:12 | kanzure: | i wonder if you could have a scheme where each transaction required a ledger lock |
| 19:46:59 | kanzure: | it would be very slow and not do thousands of transactions per second, but the other properties might be interesting |
| 19:55:02 | Taek42: | what do you mean by ledger lock? |
| 19:58:27 | helo: | i can't think of the ledger being locked between blocks any more than it already is |
| 19:59:33 | helo: | oh, between transactions... well they are applied to the utxo in sequence, so it's locked too |
| 20:06:08 | kanzure: | oops, i should have explicitly said a non-bitcoin scheme |
| 20:42:10 | kanzure: | ah it wouldn't work because you would have to negotiate who gets the lock, to add a transaction each time, and that is easy to attack, even if all of the other problems are solved (or worth solving) |
| 21:01:04 | petertodd: | gmaxwell: that writeup is way out of date - hub-and-spoke micropayment channels make that stuff mostly obsolete |
| 21:03:33 | moa: | petertodd: i've been wondering if chaum blinded tokens could be issued by a notary using (micro)-payment channels, nLockTime, in tranches as needed etc? |
| 21:04:06 | petertodd: | moa: they can be, although your blinded privacy is les unless you hold the token for awhile to get a good k-anonymity set |
| 21:04:25 | moa: | ah |
| 21:04:34 | moa: | but still a little bit awesome |
| 21:09:05 | petertodd: | moa: yup, it's a strict improvement in every case as far as I can tell |
| 21:11:31 | moa: | and could be workarounds for getting a good anonymity set longer term I suspect? |
| 21:13:02 | moa: | i mean good anonymity faster ... |
| 21:13:36 | petertodd: | moa: yeah, you can do a coinjoin like scheme where you wait for someone else to get a token at the same time, ensuring your k-anonymity set is at least 2 |
| 21:22:58 | zwischenzug2: | zwischenzug2 is now known as zwischenzug |
| 21:44:48 | dgenr8: | kanzure: that's like suggesting the whole internet should be one big token-ring network' |
| 21:49:05 | kanzure: | yes. |
| 21:50:59 | gmaxwell: | petertodd: yea, actually I just wanted a citation for extended security techniques for moderately trusted agents. I agree that just for that application micropayment channel networks add a whole bunch. |
| 21:51:21 | gmaxwell: | So I think it was good for what I was looking for. |
| 21:51:24 | petertodd: | gmaxwell: cool |
| 21:52:06 | amiller_: | petertodd, whats hub and spoke microchannels |
| 21:52:12 | amiller_: | micropayment channels |
| 21:52:44 | petertodd: | amiller_: have a hub that has u-payment channels between it and others, then you can send money to anyone connected to the hub instantly and w/o trusting the hub with the money |
| 21:53:43 | amiller_: | petertodd, link to description or something? |
| 21:53:57 | amiller_: | i guess this https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=438726.0 |
| 21:54:03 | petertodd: | amiller_: I'm not sure that anyone has written up a description - I thought someone did but turns out I was wrong |
| 21:54:11 | petertodd: | I can write one up for the -dev list - it's not my idea |
| 21:54:23 | amiller_: | whose is it |
| 21:54:30 | amiller_: | also, i don't see how this avoids having to trust the hub |
| 21:54:32 | petertodd: | dunno! |
| 21:54:37 | amiller_: | or having to trust the union of all the people connected |
| 21:54:45 | petertodd: | amiller_: well, you trust the hub with a few pennies at a time, but so what if the hub steals that? |
| 21:55:05 | amiller_: | ugh |
| 21:55:17 | gmaxwell: | I dunno, it's likely many people independantly invented it, it's 'obvious' once you have micropayment channels. |
| 21:55:30 | petertodd: | gmaxwell: exactly |
| 21:55:37 | amiller_: | well tbh there are a lot of cases where you care about provisioning and having a middle party ruin your service isn't great |
| 21:56:05 | petertodd: | amiller_: if they ruin things, move to another hub |
| 21:56:08 | amiller_: | besides that though, i still don't understand how you aren't trusting someone more than in ordinary micropyament |
| 21:56:23 | amiller_: | petertodd, well you can't becuase you have already bundled up your capital and have to wait for the timelock to expire |
| 21:57:00 | amiller_: | (the micropayment hubs are in collusion with the payday advance places) |
| 21:57:07 | petertodd: | amiller_: so? they ruin your day, and you wait x hours/days for the locktime to expire - that's not a big deal |
| 21:57:16 | gmaxwell: | amiller_: say I have a micropayment channel open to petertodd (So I have some escrowed 2 of 2 funds with refunds setup), petertodd has a channel to you. We can just release from the channels a small amount at a time. And indeed, there is a liquidity freeze attack. |
| 21:57:16 | petertodd: | people use 100% trusting wallets all the time |
| 21:59:04 | gmaxwell: | if you like, the 'hub' itself could be a federation. e.g. a 3 of 5 multisigner... which can help make it more fault tolerant. |
| 21:59:31 | moa: | it's not mush different than a hotel puttinng a block on some of your fund while you stay there ... you just set aside that much as "cash purse" or whatever |
| 22:01:13 | moa: | and yes it is a better situation than 100% server-side wallets |
| 22:01:31 | moa: | partial timelocked trust |
| 22:01:55 | moa: | with side effect of strong anonymity if desired ... and off-chain |
| 22:30:34 | moa: | "blinding notary payment wheels" (hub-spoke) |
| 23:14:49 | moa: | http://i.imgur.com/Vtp71SX.gif |
| 23:15:05 | moa: | btc accepted? |
| 23:18:12 | sipa: | moa: not here |
| 23:32:55 | moa: | sipa: noted |