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05:03:45woah:so what about these storage mining coins?
05:55:23gmaxwell:woah: I'm not aware of any which are technically interesting currently. At least the initial proposals thave I've seen have mostly been technobabble AFAICT.
05:56:08gmaxwell:Amiller's permacoin paper explores some interesting ideas, but all these altcoin things seem to eschew rigorous thought (and the compromises in deliverables that come with) entirely.
06:01:33woah:you think that maidsafe, filecoin, etc are not going to work?
06:16:20phantomcircuit:woah, they're vaguely neat
06:16:30phantomcircuit:but i would be surprised if they actually work
06:16:38woah:yea will be cool to find out
06:23:35gmaxwell:woah: haven't looked lately. Everything that I've seen has been serious red flags.
06:23:52gmaxwell:As in, text that clearly indicates the speaker either doesn't understand the issue or doesn't care.
06:24:02woah:whats a good example?
06:25:14phantomcircuit:woah, it's hard to point to something because it all changes every few weeks (or faster)
06:25:30phantomcircuit:which is likely itself a strategy to avoid criticism
06:26:48woah:sorry to hear that
06:27:13woah:resistant to whitepaper analysis attack
06:35:00fluffypony:woah: they use PoW...Proof of Whitepaper
06:35:47woah:yea... i wonder if it would be more effective for peopl designing these things to write simple simulations instead
06:36:39woah:somewhere between pseudocode in a whitepaper and an actual implementation
06:37:20woah:was attempting to do that with a currency my friend was designing
06:37:32woah:found that his whitepaper was incomplete in the process!
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11:01:53adam3us:nsh: i think u get that for free when using addresses, because the addr = H(pubkey), and the signature reveals the pubkey. the pubkey is a point. i used that fact in committed tx to delay revealing information until spent. you can also check double-spend using that, which might be relevant for this app, you can find the thread on bitcointalk
12:24:22Taek:woah, I've spent a good amount of time reading the storage whitepapers. Filecoin has a few problems, one of which means that larger mining operations will get quadratically increasing returns on their investments
12:24:57Taek:maidsafe is enormously complex, the attack surface is huge and last time I checked, each file was only stored on 4 machines
12:26:20Taek:Storj's whitepaper is vague at best, they don't go into the specifics of how things are done which means you can't analyze it for security
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12:58:23mist:[Global Notice] Hi all, I know a fair few of you have requested an update on the recent server compromise. For those interested in a brief update you can head over to http://bit.ly/1z78rgQ to read a few words penned by the very generous NCC Group, who have been invaluable in helping us investigate the issue. Thank you!
13:03:18mist:[Global Notice] Clearly the previously mentioned URL is not equipped to handle thousands of freenoders hitting it at once. If you're interested, try again later.
14:01:45Eliel:Taek: so, storj whitepaper assumes certain tools and describes how to use them to build the system but the tools aren't defined?
14:03:07Taek:The tools are defined (partially) but I don't think they say how the tools will be incorporated into a blockchain
14:18:26tacotime:Taek: super3 is here if you want to talk to him about storj
14:27:10pigeons:i've asked about that too, super3 says the whitepaper is being udated/improved
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15:35:52Emcy:"In technical terms, when a system partition is encrypted, TrueCrypt uses PBKDF2-RIPEMD160 with 1,000 iterations. For standard containers and other (i.e. non system) partitions, TrueCrypt uses at most 2,000 iterations."
15:36:00Emcy:does that sound like a genuine weakness
15:37:17Emcy:this guys forked TV znd beefed up the iterations to 500,000 or so and says that makes it a lot better
15:37:25Taek:Sounds fine to me, you just need a stronger password
15:38:19Taek:500,000 iterations means an attacker needs to do the hash operation 500 times as much, which is only about 10 bits of entropy. Adding a single dictionary word to the end of your would-be password adds the same amount of security
15:38:49Emcy:right, i thought it sounded like a bit of spin
15:40:08Emcy:but considering most people use shitty passwords, upping greatly the iterations would likely be useful right
15:42:38Taek:yes. Especially if you can do 500k iterations in under 1 second, there's not much disadvantage.
15:43:13Emcy:well thats atleats 2 forks of TC i know about now
15:43:48Emcy:gonna take a good while before consensus skaes out on who is the true heir
16:37:23tacotime:well, for truecrypt probably using a better key derivation technique would also be pretty useful, eg scrypt with 2GB or so. i don't know if any of the forks do.
16:37:49tacotime:But you could always do that manually.
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19:31:56tacotime:In Bitcoin, most OP codes for scripts are disabled because they are unsafe. Is there a writeup somewhere detailing a security analysis as to why each of these OP codes are disabled and what hazards they may pose?
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19:33:19sipa:also, it doesn't matter anymore; for all intents and purposes, these opcodes don't exist
19:34:45tacotime:Right. ByteCoin proposed a simplified scripting system using on the operators min, max, sum, mul, and cmp, however, they failed to implement it at release.
19:35:19tacotime:I get the feeling that these operators generally are not safe, but I don't have proof, and I'm not sure where to go to look for examples of where they would be unsafe.
19:35:56tacotime:min, max, cmp, and sum probably, but mul I'm wary of.
19:36:21sipa:the unsafe thing in bitcoin was op_cat mostly, as it allowed for exponential mmeory usage
20:09:45petertodd:sipa: it's really unfortunate that OP_CAT wasn't simply fixed by having it check the output against the max pushdata limit
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22:37:14gmaxwell:I think I'd checked before and actually all all the disabled ones I was able to figure out at least on way they were unsafe.. I think .. except one.
22:38:12sipa:actually all all?
22:43:46gmaxwell:ooops. Was fretting there if it was all or all but one, can't remember which one.
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