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16:50:13	Taek:	This winter we will probably spend several hundred dollars heating out home
16:50:56	Taek:	If Bitcoin miners became efficient enough, people might be able to replace their heating systems with mining rigs
16:51:13	Taek:	all the heat that's normally an issue for data centers would be a virtue in a decentralized context
16:51:25	Taek:	but only in the winter
16:58:38	bitjedi:	hi
16:59:11	maaku_:	maaku_ is now known as maaku
17:00:03	tacotime:	* tacotime codes by the heat of ASICs in the winter.
17:07:46	andytoshi:	link to etay/sirer 2ppow? i thought their proposal was trivially non-progress-free, i don't recall it being interesting or tunable so i guess i am thinking of something else?
17:08:57	andytoshi:	in fact, i thought asic-faq.pdf was a perfectly good rebuttal despite having been written several months earlier :P
17:09:19	tromp:	http://hackingdistributed.com/2014/06/18/how-to-disincentivize-large-bitcoin-mining-pools/
17:11:21	andytoshi:	yeah, that's right... it's trivially not progress-free because there are two stages which both require work
17:11:53	andytoshi:	which i read as "they have not done even basic research into how pow works" and stopped reading there, phd or no this is layman crypto
17:17:59	tromp:	it's mostly progress free. way more than cuckoo cycle anyway
17:18:40	tromp:	after solving the 1st stage, you only do 1 signature+hash in the 2nd stage
17:20:21	tromp:	how would that give fast miners a disproportionate advantage?
17:59:06	andytoshi:	the 2nd stage involves many hashes because you are trying to get hash(sig) to be small
17:59:57	andytoshi:	oh, i see, if you use a unique sig scheme then it's ok
18:02:49	andytoshi:	i read it as deliberately using a randomized sig scheme to do a second pow
18:03:15	tromp:	no; it's meant to be a single deterministic check
18:04:09	andytoshi:	ok, my bad, i read and dismissed the scheme too quickly
18:15:15	gmaxwell:	Weird that they've still not updated their page to point out whats required to make the second a single check.
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22:10:43	phantomcircuit:	will a transaction which has only 1 output value 0 with op_return be considered standard?
22:13:02	gmaxwell:	Yep.
22:14:15	phantomcircuit:	the limit is 40 bytes right?
22:14:56	gmaxwell:	Yep.
22:15:17	gmaxwell:	if you're just making a commitment, you might want to consider using the contract hash tool instead.
22:17:32	phantomcircuit:	gmaxwell, hmm interesting
23:19:26	phantomcircuit:	are transaction id's reversed in rpc calls?
23:29:24	tacotime:	um, depends on your implementation, but i noticed with bitcoind sometimes they were as compared to the raw tx.
23:31:17	tacotime:	does that have to do with the byte ordering when you push it off stack for a txin? never thought about it, but this is more #bitcoin-dev
23:31:55	tacotime:	ehm, that's not a script either, nevermind, it's just from a struct.