00:04:07bramm:bramm is now known as bramc
00:11:00Eliel_:I'd guess you'd at least want enough of the redundancy geographically close to be able download the entire file from reasonably local nodes.
00:11:59op_null:close nodes means failure by tsunami is very likely. you really want them to be as far away as possible.
00:14:28Eliel_:if you go for over 200% redundancy, you can pick local nodes for ~100% of the storage and then distribute the rest maximizing the geographical distribution.
00:15:38Eliel_:that will still withstand a tsunami that wipes out the local nodes.
00:17:14Eliel_:... in fact, in most cases the network isn't needed for that since a copy of the file is stored locally on the user's computer :P
04:18:14bramm:bramm is now known as bramc
06:21:22gmaxwell:I'm a bad forum dweller and I bumped this old thread for an I told you so, https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=144471.msg9764161#msg9764161
06:44:59gwillen:gmaxwell: well, this is a channel for wizardry, and ... thread necromancy is clearly some kind of magic
06:47:02bramc:gmaxwell, This might be related to Jed not being terribly keen on sending me his technical docs
07:15:33Taek:In defense of storj, it's not so bad to repair your files if you require the users to log on every few months or something. Depending on the average reliability of a node, using 200% or 300% redundancy could last a year or more. They just need to pop in once to restore the original 300% redundancy.
07:33:36fanquake:andytoshi There’s way to much interesting stuff on your site.
08:56:50op_null:Taek: I'm not sure that's what users expect from such a thing. I can image the node churn rate with such a thing being quite high.
09:00:44op_null:guess to me it feels like a really hacked together system with low real world utility. as far as storage and retention goes a centralised service is better on almost every level.
09:03:46op_null:if your stored files are at all critical you're going to want to keep a good copy of them for Justin Case. might as well just throw an encrypted copy on a few cloud storage hosts and call it a day, the end result is the same if not better.
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10:20:48BlueMatt:anyone have some good examples off-hand that seem like great changes to bitcoin break things in very subtle ways?
10:21:02BlueMatt:preferably things related to consensus mechanism
10:31:59BlueMatt:or in overt ways...eg the "discourage newly-seen forks"
10:34:35op_null:the instant difficulty retargeting lots of altcoins has is a nice one. people got sick of difficulty changes getting pushed into weeks, so they made all sorts of systems where the retargeting happens every block or evey few blocks.
10:36:13op_null:while not subtle as a cryptographic thing, it caused all sorts of issues and ruins the expectation that somebody can't isolate you and feed you low level blocks.
10:42:07BlueMatt:* BlueMatt goes to read the ethereum blog to find some good ones...quite a lot here
10:47:05gmaxwell:BlueMatt: I'd caution that you should abstract enough to not trigger anyone's defences.
10:47:17gmaxwell:BlueMatt: maybe use the response on CLTV on bitcoin-development recently.
10:47:20BlueMatt:gmaxwell: I'm trying to pick things that were never implemented :)
10:47:46op_null:oh.
10:48:21gmaxwell:Petertodd and I so lovingly crafted that design to _not_ be a fork magnet, and a presumably smart earnest person responded on the list with a bunch of "oh why not do X, Y, Z" ... which were mostly things that would turn it into a triggerable hardfork.
10:48:40BlueMatt:gmaxwell: yea, I have a separate section of the talk on forking stuff
10:48:52BlueMatt:but thats a good example for that part, thanks
10:48:53gmaxwell:BlueMatt: oh I see.
10:49:31BlueMatt:* BlueMatt had a reasonable conversation with someone a few weeks ago (the guy who was on the ml saying "we need to hardfork regularly") challenging that declaration
10:49:45BlueMatt:only to find out after 20 minutes that he wasnt aware of the definition of soft/hard fork
10:49:49BlueMatt:these things need explained :)
10:49:58gmaxwell:ouch, yea, seen that happen before.
10:52:03gmaxwell:BlueMatt: an older often one is "why not just refuse to reorg at 6 blocks deep". You get lovely effects like attackers who just intentionally mine / continue two forks at depth 6 and then concurrently announce them to the whole network and the network is forever partitioned.
10:52:33BlueMatt:yea, I was gonna do the recent one where you discourage newly-seen forks
10:52:40BlueMatt:pretty much the same thing, in result at least
10:52:47gmaxwell:Now you might say, "well thats really hard to compute surely you don't need to worry about it" ... but apparently reorgs of that depth were enough of a concern that you wanted to "fix" them.
10:53:00BlueMatt:heh
10:53:39gmaxwell:Plus new nodes entering the network would automatically be inconsistent with existing ones if there were a long fork.
10:53:53BlueMatt:yea
10:54:42gmaxwell:I guess the notion of tradeoffs is important to express. Some things are possible, but seldom for free. Not sure what would make the best example of that.
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