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04:53:48kanzure:yahoo labs bitcoin presentation http://labs.yahoo.com/_c/uploads/ETH_11142.pdf
04:57:08kanzure:not sure about page 34
04:59:56gmaxwell:kanzure: can you decode "input" in the context of the presentation for me?
05:00:09kanzure:page 12 function I()
05:00:20kanzure:not sure
05:00:46kanzure:i suppose that's the set of transactions?
05:00:53gmaxwell:yea, doesn't actually make sense to me. It sounds like the set of transactions they're mining.
05:01:26gmaxwell:Right but the only 'change your input' you do in a reorg, is the minimum required to not produce invalid blocks with respect to the new predicate.
05:01:53kanzure:their purple question "How do we prevent the adversary from shifting its hashing power from one to the other?" is alarming to me (indicates they might be missing something important)
05:05:21gmaxwell:it may be related to the assumption the ghost stuff tries to address; Satoshi's model is flawed in that orphaning rate means that an efficient ("centeralized") attacker can win against the honest decenteralized miners just by being more consolidated even with a minority hashrate. ... but only if its close enough to a majority by some value proportional to the orphan rate. For bitcoin 10 minutes
05:05:27gmaxwell:is large enough relative to propagation that this effect can basically be ignored.
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08:24:54phantomcircuit:kanzure, that entire thing is pretty bad
08:25:08phantomcircuit:"miners compare their respective sizes in terms of number of blocks"
08:28:58gmaxwell:phantomcircuit: can just be a harmless simplification; they don't mention retargeting. It's not unreasonable to analyize a toy version of the protocol without it.
08:30:18phantomcircuit:i guess
08:32:01phantomcircuit:pg 11 they propose an attacker splits the network to gain an advantage over honest miners
08:32:05phantomcircuit:except that doesn't work
08:35:02gmaxwell:it's at least not clear to me what they're discussing, e.g. you can produce two blocks at equal height and simultaniously announce to slow the growth of the longest chain, but I was never able to figure out a strategy to make this win assuming the attacker had a minority hashpower and propagation was insignificant.
08:39:36phantomcircuit:gmaxwell, they've got lots of greek letters though so clearly it's interesting
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14:26:47tromp__:the first author is a former colleague and co-author of mine.
14:44:00tromp__:amusing article at http://observer.com/2015/02/the-race-to-replace-bitcoin/
14:45:20tromp__:choice quote "But among aficionados, there is wide consensus that the weaknesses in Bitcoin are fatal and unfixable." :)
14:57:37justanotheruser:you can tell its going to be a good article when they use crypto as a short version of cryptocurrency
14:58:35nsh:the observer is theoretically a grown-up publication :/
15:00:17justanotheruser:Somehow Ripple is supposed to be theft-free? Bitcoins fatal flaw is the MtGox heist after all.
15:17:40fluffypony:justanotheruser: I can confirm that, having met with the President of Bitcoin and all that
15:18:50nsh:* nsh smiles
15:18:53helo:that article is the worst i can recall ever reading
15:19:37kanzure:"CEO of Ethereum and a crypto expert universally regarded as a straight shooter
15:19:40kanzure:Read more at http://observer.com/2015/02/the-race-to-replace-bitcoin/#ixzz3QyjSCXdm
15:19:52kanzure:paste spam! well now i can't read this in good conscience.
15:19:54helo:i'd expect an artile like that about satoshi if he was ever identified, but not this guy
15:20:57helo:going deeply into his family history, relationships, personal life, etc
15:23:47fluffypony:"crypto expert"
15:23:58fluffypony:that's like this choice quote I came across today: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=568166.msg10364402#msg10364402
15:24:07fluffypony:"My opinion wont mean as much as respected German cryptographer Isidor Zeuner"
15:24:14fluffypony:I was like "who?"
15:25:09justanotheruser:helo: Is it really?
15:25:36helo:it is terrible. the author must have a lot of xrp
15:26:53kanzure:well anyway, it's not -wizard territory :p
15:27:24justanotheruser:I think the problem is that many types of software don't have the same constraints as Bitcoin. You can't just write a few hundred lines of code and remove the mining "problem" or making the blockchain unnecessary
15:28:45kanzure:you can definitely do that if you do not care about mission integrity
15:31:37fluffypony:oh kanzure, thanks for your DBC python library, stumbled across it today and it made a side project a whole lot easier
15:32:20kanzure:that may not have been me
15:32:36kanzure:oh weird it was
15:34:22fluffypony:at least you remember what you wrote!