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| 02:43:15 | SubCreative: | <3 |
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| 04:53:48 | kanzure: | yahoo labs bitcoin presentation http://labs.yahoo.com/_c/uploads/ETH_11142.pdf |
| 04:57:08 | kanzure: | not sure about page 34 |
| 04:59:56 | gmaxwell: | kanzure: can you decode "input" in the context of the presentation for me? |
| 05:00:09 | kanzure: | page 12 function I() |
| 05:00:20 | kanzure: | not sure |
| 05:00:46 | kanzure: | i suppose that's the set of transactions? |
| 05:00:53 | gmaxwell: | yea, doesn't actually make sense to me. It sounds like the set of transactions they're mining. |
| 05:01:26 | gmaxwell: | Right but the only 'change your input' you do in a reorg, is the minimum required to not produce invalid blocks with respect to the new predicate. |
| 05:01:53 | kanzure: | their purple question "How do we prevent the adversary from shifting its hashing power from one to the other?" is alarming to me (indicates they might be missing something important) |
| 05:05:21 | gmaxwell: | it may be related to the assumption the ghost stuff tries to address; Satoshi's model is flawed in that orphaning rate means that an efficient ("centeralized") attacker can win against the honest decenteralized miners just by being more consolidated even with a minority hashrate. ... but only if its close enough to a majority by some value proportional to the orphan rate. For bitcoin 10 minutes |
| 05:05:27 | gmaxwell: | is large enough relative to propagation that this effect can basically be ignored. |
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| 08:24:54 | phantomcircuit: | kanzure, that entire thing is pretty bad |
| 08:25:08 | phantomcircuit: | "miners compare their respective sizes in terms of number of blocks" |
| 08:25:09 | phantomcircuit: | sigh |
| 08:28:58 | gmaxwell: | phantomcircuit: can just be a harmless simplification; they don't mention retargeting. It's not unreasonable to analyize a toy version of the protocol without it. |
| 08:30:18 | phantomcircuit: | i guess |
| 08:32:01 | phantomcircuit: | pg 11 they propose an attacker splits the network to gain an advantage over honest miners |
| 08:32:05 | phantomcircuit: | except that doesn't work |
| 08:35:02 | gmaxwell: | it's at least not clear to me what they're discussing, e.g. you can produce two blocks at equal height and simultaniously announce to slow the growth of the longest chain, but I was never able to figure out a strategy to make this win assuming the attacker had a minority hashpower and propagation was insignificant. |
| 08:39:36 | phantomcircuit: | gmaxwell, they've got lots of greek letters though so clearly it's interesting |
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| 14:26:47 | tromp__: | the first author is a former colleague and co-author of mine. |
| 14:44:00 | tromp__: | amusing article at http://observer.com/2015/02/the-race-to-replace-bitcoin/ |
| 14:45:20 | tromp__: | choice quote "But among aficionados, there is wide consensus that the weaknesses in Bitcoin are fatal and unfixable." :) |
| 14:45:55 | nsh: | lol |
| 14:57:37 | justanotheruser: | you can tell its going to be a good article when they use crypto as a short version of cryptocurrency |
| 14:58:35 | nsh: | the observer is theoretically a grown-up publication :/ |
| 15:00:17 | justanotheruser: | Somehow Ripple is supposed to be theft-free? Bitcoins fatal flaw is the MtGox heist after all. |
| 15:17:40 | fluffypony: | justanotheruser: I can confirm that, having met with the President of Bitcoin and all that |
| 15:18:50 | nsh: | * nsh smiles |
| 15:18:53 | helo: | that article is the worst i can recall ever reading |
| 15:19:37 | kanzure: | "CEO of Ethereum and a crypto expert universally regarded as a straight shooter |
| 15:19:40 | kanzure: | Read more at http://observer.com/2015/02/the-race-to-replace-bitcoin/#ixzz3QyjSCXdm |
| 15:19:52 | kanzure: | paste spam! well now i can't read this in good conscience. |
| 15:19:54 | helo: | i'd expect an artile like that about satoshi if he was ever identified, but not this guy |
| 15:20:57 | helo: | going deeply into his family history, relationships, personal life, etc |
| 15:23:41 | fluffypony: | lol |
| 15:23:47 | fluffypony: | "crypto expert" |
| 15:23:58 | fluffypony: | that's like this choice quote I came across today: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=568166.msg10364402#msg10364402 |
| 15:24:07 | fluffypony: | "My opinion wont mean as much as respected German cryptographer Isidor Zeuner" |
| 15:24:14 | fluffypony: | I was like "who?" |
| 15:25:09 | justanotheruser: | helo: Is it really? |
| 15:25:36 | helo: | it is terrible. the author must have a lot of xrp |
| 15:26:53 | kanzure: | well anyway, it's not -wizard territory :p |
| 15:27:01 | kanzure: | -wizards |
| 15:27:24 | justanotheruser: | I think the problem is that many types of software don't have the same constraints as Bitcoin. You can't just write a few hundred lines of code and remove the mining "problem" or making the blockchain unnecessary |
| 15:28:45 | kanzure: | you can definitely do that if you do not care about mission integrity |
| 15:31:37 | fluffypony: | oh kanzure, thanks for your DBC python library, stumbled across it today and it made a side project a whole lot easier |
| 15:32:20 | kanzure: | that may not have been me |
| 15:32:36 | kanzure: | oh weird it was |
| 15:34:03 | fluffypony: | lol |
| 15:34:22 | fluffypony: | at least you remember what you wrote! |