00:04:20kanzure:"although some systems (such as Ripple) are completely independent designs" with independent and different, sometimes entirely unrelated goals
00:05:21kanzure:"This approach is now viewed suspiciously by the cryptocurrency community due to a wave of altcoins allegedly launched by founders hoping to cash in through early mining."
00:05:33kanzure:specifically, the concern tends to be that the blocks were mined prior to launch
00:05:45kanzure:(which does not seem to be mentioned here...)
00:07:16kanzure:"This would function like a hard fork, but with no claim that the new system is the legitimate Bitcoin system. Interestingly, this approach seems not to have been attempted seriously." see also my comments in response to http://sfultong.blogspot.com/2014/09/the-stupidity-of-blockchain.html but realistically people probably realize that individuals will just sell and exchange for bitcoin as soon as possible.
00:15:20kanzure:amiller: also, the coverage of asic-resistance seems to completely ignores the arguments against asic-resistance as desirable.
00:15:23kanzure:or er, undesirable.. negation is hard.
00:16:03kanzure:"proposed a puzzle with a puzzle incorporating" redundant redundancy
00:18:28kanzure:"the folklore arguments suggesting that consuming external resources (i.e., burning energy) is necessary for blockchain security" that's nice, but a little awkward to be inserted in the middle of a section about proof-of-stake?
00:23:30kanzure:i mean, it has broader applicability
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00:29:14nsh:consuming external resources is definitely necessary for bitcoin security :)
00:29:30nsh:let's not equivocate on thermodynamics already
00:34:01instagibbs:kanzure: or the mining algorithm is obfuscated for hidden optimizations
00:34:22kanzure:er.. i thought this wasn't true anymore? "Second, nodes (by default) store every transaction in history on disk"
00:35:23instagibbs:I'll make sure to go through the doc tonight and give feedback
00:36:01sipa:kanzure: is this about bitcoin core?
00:36:21instagibbs:the (default) seems to point as such
00:36:27sipa:in that case, yes
00:36:44sipa:pruning isn't merged yet
00:37:12instagibbs:0.11 *knock on wood*
00:37:39kanzure:oh hm
00:39:15tromp__:amiller: please refer to the BITCOIN2015 version of my paper and note the small change in title
00:39:56amiller:tromp__, okay
00:40:44tromp__:and i'd remove the hyphen in cuckoo-cycle, and capitalize it:)
00:41:05tromp__:in part B of section V
00:41:33kanzure:amiller: alright, that's all the complaints i have from my first pass through your paper..
00:43:40instagibbs:is there a good place to find more in-depth history on why these digital cash schemes failed previously? If distributed consensus is somehow secret sauce that implies bank failure, regulation, etc
00:45:16kanzure:instagibbs: http://cryptome.org/jya/digicrash.htm
00:45:34kanzure:("How digicash blew everything")
00:45:52nsh:-you'll never BELIEVE step 3!!
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04:38:11instagibbs_:kanzure: interesting expose. It appears nearly all the patents have run out; would be interesting to see if any come of use
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06:42:41fluffypony:nsh: number 8 will SHOCK YOU!
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15:07:38nsh:oh, nice one kanzure :)
15:08:18nsh:are you transcribing any more cool-things-wot-i-missed?
15:08:40kanzure:dunno, i'm skeptical of typing this jeremy allaire stuff
15:08:51kanzure:like, went from core development to this ceotalk.. what's going on here.
15:08:58kanzure:( http://blog.circle.com/2015/02/10/devcore-livestream/ )
15:09:24kanzure:gavinandresen: sorry for not capturing all of that. i only caught last few minutes :(.
15:09:52fanquake:kanzure Any chance you have a transcript/video of the talk sipa gave a few days ago?
15:10:03kanzure:you people need to tell me about these things if you want transcripts
15:10:08nsh:* nsh nods
15:10:29nsh:i'm sure if you find the right thing to rotate, sipa will rewind and give it again
15:10:46kanzure:"evolve into a more distributed cloud butt"
15:10:50kanzure:yeah i'm not typing this...
15:10:55nsh:* nsh listens to distributed-waffles
15:11:11fanquake:are we even talking bitcoin?
15:11:23fanquake:*is he
15:11:39kanzure:what a waste of time. this is supposed to be for core developers? hilarious
15:11:41nsh:not explicitly. fiduciary trust something. oh god, microsoft DCOM
15:11:57fanquake:JAVA in the browser
15:12:04nsh:java in the browser. i think we've covering what definitely didn't work
15:12:35kanzure:he doesn't understand why netscape "died off"
15:14:02fanquake:Did the audience members have to pay to be there?
15:18:10nsh:this isn't entirely without merit, between buzzphrases
15:18:12nsh:hi zooko
15:20:00fanquake:Yea, guess I’ll have to wait until 11.45
15:30:36kanzure:meh.... http://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/bitcoin-devcore-2015/jeremy-allaire-circle/
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15:39:07instagibbs:Circle is paying for the event... they get to talk :P
15:48:22instagibbs:oh rivetz guy
15:59:42kanzure:meh i typed a bit of that http://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/bitcoin-devcore-2015/jeremy-allaire-circle/
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16:40:15fanquake:digging this music
17:03:27Zouppen:do you have any suggestions for public key crypto which is easy to do in modern web browsers? encryption is done at browser in this case (decryption will be server-side)
17:04:17Zouppen:it doesn't need to be ECDSA related, although it would be useful if we can use bitcoin addresses as public part of the key
17:05:32MRL-Relay:[tacotime] I mean... I think you can do everything in JS for secp256k1, whether or not that's a good idea is a whole different story.
17:29:36justanotheruser:Zouppen: web wallets can't be secure by design, but there is webcrypto
17:34:41Zouppen:justanotheruser: do you mean w3c web cryptography api?
17:35:40justanotheruser:Zouppen: yes
17:37:12Zouppen:seems pretty supported for my suprise http://caniuse.com/#feat=cryptography
17:49:47kanzure:so i think that this current presentation is disingenious... building on a third-party api is pointless. you might as well not use bitcoin. simplified payment verification still counts, but whatever.
17:53:13kanzure:"we have to get over the learning curve" this seems dangerous.. just replacing bitcoind with a third party api is not compelling.
17:56:38kanzure:can someone ping me when development stuff is being streamed and if you want a transcript? kthx
17:56:50kanzure:(from http://blog.circle.com/2015/02/10/devcore-livestream/ )
18:08:09Zouppen:justanotheruser: yes, seems to do the trick, at least there is RSA-OAEP there which supports asymmetric encryption. http://www.w3.org/TR/WebCryptoAPI/#algorithm-overview
18:08:56justanotheruser:Zouppen: good. Any further discussion probably belongs in ##crypto
18:10:58Zouppen:okay. you are true that this wasn't very bitcoin specific question so apologies for that and thanks for suggesting the w3c crypto api
19:30:33kanzure:i wonder if very long delays in blockchain sync would be useful if you wanted to perform human review of the transactions in the mean time (e.g. you were ont okay with instant relay)
19:31:06kanzure:you could have tools to help you manually review the edge cases (since the vast majority are probably standard rule-following transactions that you had already configured your review analysis tool to be okay with)
19:31:16kanzure:oh right, delays aren't compatible with the racing
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