02:09:38luigi1111w:luigi1111w is now known as Guest34277
02:39:29tdryja:tdryja has left #bitcoin-wizards
03:28:50jessepollak_:jessepollak_ is now known as jessepollak
03:39:28pigeons:pigeons is now known as Guest68390
03:49:53Pan0ram1x_:Pan0ram1x_ is now known as Pan0ram1x
04:42:08c0rw1n:c0rw1n is now known as c0rw|sleep
05:51:06gmaxwell:ugh: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/30562s/bitnodes_will_be_releasing_plug_play_bitcoin_node/ ... we removed bitnodes as a dnsseed in bitcoin core because they kept engaging in sketchy behavior, and IMO dishonest. (e.g. we'd ask them to stop connecting at super high frequency to monitor every node in the network, and they said they would.. and a month later they instead had a perpetual
05:51:12gmaxwell:link up to every node in the network, etc. etc.)
05:52:07kanzure:who is "we"? who made the request
05:52:18gmaxwell:Now they're announcing that they're selling "full node hardware" (an underpowered odroid c1 and some yet to be disclosed software load); ... this really doesn't fill me with excitement.
05:52:35gmaxwell:kanzure: bitcoin core commiters; jeff, myself mostly, pieter.
05:53:47gmaxwell:after several cycles of the above kind of miscommunication I got tired of repeating it (and worring if they were really up to no good, or if it was just some derpy miscommunication), and just removed them.
05:55:23gmaxwell:Since then they started a "pay people to run full nodes" program thats pretty seriously ill-advised (because the optimal way to pay is just proxy networks, so it breaks our ability to estimate measure actual full node deployment; and doesn't get us anything we were lacking (not like we're running out of sockets)); and now this.
06:00:53satwo:gmaxwell: their website states "Bitnodes is currently being developed to estimate the size of the Bitcoin network by finding all the reachable nodes in the network." <- doesn't seem like they got the memo.
06:02:13gmaxwell:the complaint wasn't the spidering, its that they were taking what could have been a couple connections per day of spidering and instead using a lot of reasources (and later staying connected and monitoring transactions).
06:03:11gmaxwell:Kinda funny that the reddit crowd was shocked-shocked about chainanalysis or whatever that was but is goo-goo for this, obviously chainanalysis should have just paid everyone 8 cents per month. :-/
06:05:02satwo:not knowing any better, i was under the impression that chainanalysis was the first known company to attempt that... perhaps I should spend more time here and less time over at r/bitcoin ;)
06:05:16kanzure:avoiding reddit is a good strategy in general
06:06:41gmaxwell:satwo: the only differences I'm aware of about chainanalysis is that they also ran a /24 worth of 'nodes' to get more connections from hosts behind nats that are not reachable from the outside world; and that they were explicitly and overtly a business to monitor user's location behavior.
06:06:54midnightmagic:kanzure: Except that *not* contributing to signal in a noise-ful environment is to ignore the massive propagation of lies and misconceptions, and we all suffer for it eventually because the only people who can correct them are the people who know better, and the people who know better (or *should* know better) won't grow as a population unless the pre-existing population builds numbers.
06:07:24gmaxwell:Interestingly, they distinguished themselves from BC.i by pointing out at least they'd never just post the IPs they collect; which I'm not sure what I think about that defense.
06:14:06satwo:gmaxwell: never knew BC.i did that until now. They count almost 3.5 million unique ip addresses. Perhaps useful to encourage node operators to use tor?
06:20:28satwo:midnightmagic: I always pay extra careful attention when I see a comment by a core dev or otherwise "respectable" technical person like peter todd... problem is, even those guys often get quickly accused of being shills for one thing or another, potentially leaving the casual observer in a state of confusion and doubt.
06:22:14kanzure:uh, well they should be confused.
06:26:53midnightmagic:satwo: Model a smarter person than an LCD casual observer as the audience and target of comments there, and set the tone light enough that you don't get downvote-dogpiled.
06:40:12satwo:midnightmagic: Good advice; but I'm hesitant to post much until I have more confidence that I actually know what I'm talking about ;)
06:40:54satwo:Which is one reason I thought I'd start lurking around these parts.
07:28:45fluffypony:gmaxwell: they really should be encouraged to follow the GoogleBot method
07:29:20fluffypony:I noticed on Webmaster Tools a few weeks ago that by default it restricts itself to only grabbing a few kb of data a day
07:30:05fluffypony:I can't see a need for Bitnodes to connect to a node more rapidly than like once a week
07:30:26fluffypony:especially if they can fingerprint nodes somehow to see if a node has dropped off or merely changed its IP
07:33:22fluffypony:* fluffypony ponders
07:34:36fluffypony:fingerprinting could be done by a traceroute (last hop may/should stay the same if the node's IP changes), or by a quick port scan + grab headers for common services if they're active
08:05:15kornbluth.freenode.net:topic is: This channel is not about short-term Bitcoin development | http://bitcoin.ninja/ | This channel is logged. | For logs and more information, visit http://bitcoin.ninja
08:05:15kornbluth.freenode.net:Users on #bitcoin-wizards: andy-logbot Sub|afk waxwing moa phiche jtimon espes__ p15_ berndj hktud0 NewLiberty nuke_ spinza b_lumenkraft satwo whteiso TheSeven Dr-G yoleaux Pan0ram1x Guest68390 xerox otoburb_ eric prodatalab_ jessepollak eordano_ roasbeef_ Starduster_ coiner ryanxcharles Guest34277 PaulCapestany cluckj pgokeeffe d1ggy_ irc88 DoctorBTC sneak airbreather Fistful_of_Coins dardasaba isis jonasschnelli Emcy Adlai justanotheruser arubi_ dc17523be3 p15x
08:05:15kornbluth.freenode.net:Users on #bitcoin-wizards: gonedrk sipa warptangent c0rw|sleep lmacken shesek go1111111 face devrandom gribble PRab napedia ryan-c mkarrer_ melvster tromp_ helo phedny LeMiner so HM gmaxwell nuke1989 rustyn bosma dgenr8 GAit ebfull jgarzik adams_ crowleyman jaekwon Transisto bliljerk101 copumpkin adam3us heath dignork mengine_ Luke-Jr STRML nsh Logicwax harrow` huseby GreenIsMyPepper forrestv luny grandmaster Xzibit17 hguux__ michagogo yrashk mariorz deepcore ajweiss
08:05:15kornbluth.freenode.net:Users on #bitcoin-wizards: pollux-bts JonTitor null bedeho kyletorpey andytoshi amiller sl01 binaryatrocity Cory gavinandresen cornus_ammonis kefkius maaku SwedFTP aakselrod EasyAt larraboj midnightmagic lnovy Iriez gabridome s1w Apocalyptic AdrianG jcorgan Tiraspol [d__d] kyuupichan NikolaiToryzin Visheate yorick petertodd kanzure catcow Muis cfields Zouppen coryfields_ cryptowest_ kinlo crescendo wizkid057 wumpus phantomcircuit BlueMatt jaromil @gwillen dasource
08:05:15kornbluth.freenode.net:Users on #bitcoin-wizards: fenn tromp nickler Alanius BananaLotus guruvan sdaftuar Hunger- runeks null_radix epscy nanotube starsoccer comboy Taek livegnik optimator fluffypony Meeh cursive dansmith_btc morcos smooth artifexd kumavis Krellan platinuum Oizopower Keefe catlasshrugged mappum jbenet wiz gnusha warren lechuga_ Graet Eliel veox indolering K1773R TD-Linux leakypat CryptOprah Anduck a5m0 d9b4bef9 mr_burdell NeatBasis davout brand0 @ChanServ throughnothing
08:05:15kornbluth.freenode.net:Users on #bitcoin-wizards: btc___ azariah MRL-Relay BrainOverfl0w
13:24:55c0rw|sleep:c0rw|sleep is now known as c0rw1n
13:53:22Guest34277:Guest34277 is now known as luigi1111w
14:06:45[1]LeMiner:[1]LeMiner is now known as LeMiner
14:44:14fanquake:fanquake has left #bitcoin-wizards
15:55:13arubi_:arubi_ is now known as arubi
16:03:37real:real is now known as Guest36984
16:16:31chris13243:when we reach the blocksize limit, how will zero conf transactions be affected?
16:19:31fluffypony:they won't, #bitcoin-dev or #bitcoin
16:47:08binaryatrocity_:binaryatrocity_ is now known as binaryatrocity
18:14:55Guest68390:Guest68390 is now known as pigeons
19:12:24fluffypony:is anyone going to WEBTCExpo in May?
19:12:32fluffypony:in Amsterdam, May 2-3
20:06:44MRL-Relay:[tacotime] https://forum.stanford.edu/events/2015davidmarzieresinfo.php
20:07:31MRL-Relay:[tacotime] "Stellar is provably safe because we choose who the nodes are, and because they're likely banks they won't do bad stuff."
20:09:25gmaxwell:tacotime: I would have thought that was an actual quote if I didn't check.
20:09:37MRL-Relay:[tacotime] Hahahaha.
21:25:31kyletorpey:kyletorpey has left #bitcoin-wizards
22:36:21devrando1:devrando1 is now known as devrnadom
22:36:26devrnadom:devrnadom is now known as devrandom