00:25:03zooko:Wow, this is an interesting paper arguing that if you're a miner on the bitcoin network today, you can increase revenue by 2% if you omit all txns.
00:25:27justanotheruser:zooko: what, because you have a 2% higher orphan rate?
00:25:53justanotheruser:also, that sounds like a failing in properly choosing tx based on fee :P
00:25:57sipa:zooko: 2% seems high
00:27:39zooko:justanotheruser: I think that is what it is arguing.
00:28:15justanotheruser:25btc per mb*2% = 0.0005btc per kb fee needed in addition to make it profitable
00:30:16zooko:HT Marie Vasek
00:30:43kanzure:you expect me to believe that zooko uses gmail?
00:32:14justanotheruser:how else is he supposed to have a human-meaningful identity that is secure?
00:32:21phantomcircuit:zooko, they're just arguing that larger blocks have a higher orphan rate right?
00:48:31zooko:phantomcircuit: I'm not 100% sure what the argument is...
00:50:44phantomcircuit:zooko, yeah it is
00:50:52phantomcircuit:"When pro cessing transactions in a blo ck, a miner increases his reward but alsodecreases his probability to earn any reward b ecause the time needed for his block to reach consensus dep ends on its size. "
00:51:33phantomcircuit:zooko, that's old and boring and there are solutions which roughly fix this
00:51:44phantomcircuit:see https://github.com/TheBlueMatt/RelayNode
01:16:38bramc:Even sending off to the relay network takes some amount of time. Transaction fees being effectively zero is not a good thing.
01:17:47instagibbs:worst case is that fees get bumped to match orphan risk. Not a crisis.
01:18:51gmaxwell:zooko: the numbers in that paper are pure BS.
01:19:15gmaxwell:it's based off the "decker" numbers which are from measurements in 2012 and don't reflect the current state of technology.
01:20:21gmaxwell:bramc: relay network sending a block, if txn are already preforwarded takes sending one or two packets.
01:20:25phantomcircuit:bramc, if you run a relay node locally it doesn't
01:20:42bramc:gmaxwell, Oh right, that does mostly fix it
01:20:50gmaxwell:relay node client.
01:21:20phantomcircuit:right just the client is enough
01:22:34gmaxwell:bramc: in any case, the decker numbers in that paper are prior to signature caching, prior to ultra prune, prior to removing several arbritary 100ms sleeps in the bitcoin networking code, and a dozen other performance improvements. So even without the relaynetwork client, they don't reflect the actual network behavior.
01:24:08phantomcircuit:gmaxwell, 10ms but yeah
01:24:39gmaxwell:phantomcircuit: hm. You sure?
01:24:51phantomcircuit:pretty sure
01:25:37gmaxwell:speaking of that, we still have one related; I think the person working on it (Ashley has abandoned it)
01:26:10sipa:there were 100ms and 10ms ones
01:26:13phantomcircuit:no you're right it was 100
01:26:13sipa:long ago
01:26:15gmaxwell:we nitpicked it to death, alas (well the patch Ashley made a ton of very difficult to audit locking changes which I think are avoidable)
01:26:18sipa:not sure which are left, but at least one
01:29:22phantomcircuit:sipa, i think the only way the networking thread sleeps is if it has nothing to do
01:29:52phantomcircuit:so that means average 50ms latency added to processing any incoming message
01:30:55gmaxwell:phantomcircuit: yes, see the pullreq by Ashley. replaces that control with a semaphore but it adds a bunch of prods to make it spin all over the code.
01:32:12phantomcircuit:gmaxwell, you know what the pr # is?
02:03:49gmaxwell:andytoshi: so now that rust 1.0 beta is out, have you updated all your rust code yet?
02:05:17phantomcircuit:gmaxwell, lol
05:06:25phantomcircuit:bramc, for reference
05:06:26phantomcircuit:[2015-04-04 05:05:13+00] 0000000000000000083b0cb560b11e15716c62b0ae37ac826166923db4e2fcad recv'd, size 350675 with 1361 bytes on the wire
05:07:09phantomcircuit:that's just 2 ethernet frames
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15:52:19kanzure:"A distributed system is one in which the failure of a computer you didn't even know existed can render your own computer unusable."
17:00:50andytoshi:gmaxwell: been working on it over the last couple weeks, it's been tough because i need all my dependencies to be compilable at the same time, if any one breaks then i'm stalled :)
17:01:15andytoshi:and the web stuff that rust-jsonrpc depends on has totally changed, i'm gonna have to rewrite that lib i think before i can get wizards-wallet to work
17:01:41andytoshi:but rust-bitcoin is in pretty good shape and bitcoin-secp256k1-rs is totally usable (except i should rename it :P)
17:02:17zooko:Sweet. ☺
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