00:04:47phantomcircuit:dgenr8, sure but in a typical settlement transaction the net amounts are not meaningful to the individuals whose transactions are being netted
00:05:59dgenr8:er, that's my point. the average observer/validator will lack any context or way to connect what's observed in the blockchain to anything they know about (like their own txes)
00:16:08dgenr8:could there be a way to scale, and retain that property? are there ways to impose other tradeoffs preferentially on different parties, and yet still retain all the important properties of bitcoin? can bitcoin become something that is infinitely scalable?
00:20:56Luke-Jr:dgenr8: the validator is not SUPPOSED to know anything about the transaction, other than the change of UTXOs
00:21:08Luke-Jr:which continues to work fine with Lightning at least
01:04:57gandalf_:any thoughts on ethereum?
01:13:47sipa:kanzure: economic activity that relies on validation by a full node?
01:14:02kanzure:go on...
01:14:06sipa:like not shipping goods until incoming payments are validated by it?
01:14:23kanzure:if 10% of all economic activity is going through one node, is that still sufficient.. or what..
01:15:56sipa:right, it's about independent entities basing their economic activity on validation by a self-run full node
01:16:29sipa:or more generally, i guess the degree to which their economic activity is based on trusting data from others
01:18:16kanzure:is it something like "the degree to which their economic activity can survive reorgs and hard forks"?
01:19:28sipa:it's rather... would be affected by hard fork
01:28:27dgenr8:here's a straw man. new permanent publication mechanism which is like the blockchain EXCEPT makes no effort to validate transactions or prevent double-spends. It also supports the definition of tree structures.
01:28:43dgenr8:blockchain now just needs the merkle root.
01:29:31sipa:dgenr8: you just reinvented tree chains :)
01:30:30dgenr8:oh crap. i thought that was N blockchains, all validating and preventing double spends.
01:52:00dgenr8:reviewed treechains. it talks about spending on this or that chain, which is different... I was thinking keep one chain, and go to small (constant-size) blocks that just reference a merkle tree stored elsewhere. all the challenges are in how to create the 'elsewhere' :/
02:06:04dgenr8:a full node would maintain some configurable portion of a global hierarchical structure of all the txes and tx tree definitions, and would need to do some level of validation to prevent spam.
02:09:51dgenr8:oh, it's a DHT I guess... this doesn't work?
02:58:23jgarzik:I lol'd when someone on reddit suggested replacing bitcoin with a sharded DHT
02:58:35jgarzik:going from most sybil resistant to least in 4.5 seconds
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03:07:58Luke-Jr:jgarzik: I lol'd at the guy saying we should stop arguign about block size and just change the price instead.
03:08:12jgarzik:heh
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07:12:54runeks:i support changing the bitcoin price
07:13:34runeks:but i can't find the relevant lines in the source code...
07:13:47sipa:lol
07:14:20runeks:hehe :)
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09:32:04fluffypony:runeks: lines 507 - 513
09:32:17fluffypony:just make sure not to use flaot
09:32:18fluffypony:*float
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16:06:07dgenr8:jgarzik: this may be dense, but i need help seeing why. a specialized DHT would not replace bitcoin, but rather implement the permanent detail-transaction portion of the block storage database, and serve as a shared mempool. nodes such as miners could still cache local copies of whatever they needed.
16:21:46dgenr8:you might need two 'indexes' corresponding to mapTx (to support tx lookup) and mapNextTx (to support partitioning validation). I don't know if this is possible with a DHT, other than by having two DHT's.
16:22:00dgenr8:Since inputs can be combined arbitrarily, a node might need to request history from the network to fully validate txes it is partailly responsible for. maybe this could be mitigated by limiting the # of inputs.
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16:26:37afk11:hi all. I'm trying explore the stratum protocol a bit, but a bit confused. for starters I sent some curl requests, but don't seem to get any response
16:27:19afk11:I notice that it has some element of long-polling in there, so curious what I'm missing
16:34:40fluffypony:afk11: #bitcoin-dev
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20:03:43lmatteis:are there any academics around doing research in bitcoin? i'm looking for venues, journals, conferences that deal with bitcoin or p2p systems in general
20:04:29lmatteis:i know there's this http://wan.poly.edu/p2p2015/index.html
20:09:32lmatteis:also this http://icdcs-2015.cse.ohio-state.edu/
20:11:00antanst:lmatteis: also this http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/bitcoin/
20:11:54lmatteis:are those indepndently published?
20:12:36kanzure:depends on what you mean by published
20:12:53antanst:it seems so...
20:15:58lmatteis:weird how there isn't many conferences on p2p
20:16:34kanzure:p2pfoundation covered a bunch of that, if that's what you're looking for
20:16:48lmatteis:there's just that IEEE one but it's rated fairely bad: http://103.1.187.206/core/668/
20:16:57lmatteis:C is kind of low
20:17:03lmatteis:kanzure: what do you mean 'they covered'?
20:17:13kanzure:their wiki has a large list of p2p-related conferences
20:17:17lmatteis:i'm looking for peer-reviewed journal/conferences/venus
20:17:21lmatteis:not just published pdf's on a sit
20:17:22lmatteis:*site
20:17:28lmatteis:ah nice link?
20:17:32kanzure:sounds very picky
20:18:29lmatteis:ah perhaps this http://p2pfoundation.net/Category:Conferences
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