| 00:04:47 | phantomcircuit: | dgenr8, sure but in a typical settlement transaction the net amounts are not meaningful to the individuals whose transactions are being netted |
| 00:05:59 | dgenr8: | er, that's my point. the average observer/validator will lack any context or way to connect what's observed in the blockchain to anything they know about (like their own txes) |
| 00:16:08 | dgenr8: | could there be a way to scale, and retain that property? are there ways to impose other tradeoffs preferentially on different parties, and yet still retain all the important properties of bitcoin? can bitcoin become something that is infinitely scalable? |
| 00:20:56 | Luke-Jr: | dgenr8: the validator is not SUPPOSED to know anything about the transaction, other than the change of UTXOs |
| 00:21:08 | Luke-Jr: | which continues to work fine with Lightning at least |
| 01:04:57 | gandalf_: | any thoughts on ethereum? |
| 01:13:47 | sipa: | kanzure: economic activity that relies on validation by a full node? |
| 01:14:02 | kanzure: | go on... |
| 01:14:06 | sipa: | like not shipping goods until incoming payments are validated by it? |
| 01:14:23 | kanzure: | if 10% of all economic activity is going through one node, is that still sufficient.. or what.. |
| 01:15:56 | sipa: | right, it's about independent entities basing their economic activity on validation by a self-run full node |
| 01:16:29 | sipa: | or more generally, i guess the degree to which their economic activity is based on trusting data from others |
| 01:18:16 | kanzure: | is it something like "the degree to which their economic activity can survive reorgs and hard forks"? |
| 01:19:28 | sipa: | it's rather... would be affected by hard fork |
| 01:28:27 | dgenr8: | here's a straw man. new permanent publication mechanism which is like the blockchain EXCEPT makes no effort to validate transactions or prevent double-spends. It also supports the definition of tree structures. |
| 01:28:43 | dgenr8: | blockchain now just needs the merkle root. |
| 01:29:31 | sipa: | dgenr8: you just reinvented tree chains :) |
| 01:30:30 | dgenr8: | oh crap. i thought that was N blockchains, all validating and preventing double spends. |
| 01:52:00 | dgenr8: | reviewed treechains. it talks about spending on this or that chain, which is different... I was thinking keep one chain, and go to small (constant-size) blocks that just reference a merkle tree stored elsewhere. all the challenges are in how to create the 'elsewhere' :/ |
| 02:06:04 | dgenr8: | a full node would maintain some configurable portion of a global hierarchical structure of all the txes and tx tree definitions, and would need to do some level of validation to prevent spam. |
| 02:09:51 | dgenr8: | oh, it's a DHT I guess... this doesn't work? |
| 02:58:23 | jgarzik: | I lol'd when someone on reddit suggested replacing bitcoin with a sharded DHT |
| 02:58:35 | jgarzik: | going from most sybil resistant to least in 4.5 seconds |
| 02:59:48 | wallet42: | wallet42 is now known as Guest80557 |
| 02:59:48 | wallet421: | wallet421 is now known as wallet42 |
| 03:07:58 | Luke-Jr: | jgarzik: I lol'd at the guy saying we should stop arguign about block size and just change the price instead. |
| 03:08:12 | jgarzik: | heh |
| 03:50:07 | EasyAt_: | EasyAt_ is now known as EasyAt |
| 05:25:49 | wallet42: | wallet42 is now known as Guest70405 |
| 05:25:49 | wallet421: | wallet421 is now known as wallet42 |
| 07:12:54 | runeks: | i support changing the bitcoin price |
| 07:13:34 | runeks: | but i can't find the relevant lines in the source code... |
| 07:13:47 | sipa: | lol |
| 07:14:20 | runeks: | hehe :) |
| 07:39:39 | wallet421: | wallet421 is now known as wallet42 |
| 07:56:54 | c0rw|away: | c0rw|away is now known as c0rw1n |
| 08:05:18 | wilhelm.freenode.net: | topic is: This channel is not about short-term Bitcoin development | http://bitcoin.ninja/ | This channel is logged. | For logs and more information, visit http://bitcoin.ninja |
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| 09:32:04 | fluffypony: | runeks: lines 507 - 513 |
| 09:32:17 | fluffypony: | just make sure not to use flaot |
| 09:32:18 | fluffypony: | *float |
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| 12:11:35 | wallet421: | wallet421 is now known as wallet42 |
| 14:20:13 | dEBRUYNE_: | dEBRUYNE_ is now known as dEBRUYNE |
| 16:06:07 | dgenr8: | jgarzik: this may be dense, but i need help seeing why. a specialized DHT would not replace bitcoin, but rather implement the permanent detail-transaction portion of the block storage database, and serve as a shared mempool. nodes such as miners could still cache local copies of whatever they needed. |
| 16:21:46 | dgenr8: | you might need two 'indexes' corresponding to mapTx (to support tx lookup) and mapNextTx (to support partitioning validation). I don't know if this is possible with a DHT, other than by having two DHT's. |
| 16:22:00 | dgenr8: | Since inputs can be combined arbitrarily, a node might need to request history from the network to fully validate txes it is partailly responsible for. maybe this could be mitigated by limiting the # of inputs. |
| 16:23:21 | PRab_: | PRab_ is now known as PRab |
| 16:26:37 | afk11: | hi all. I'm trying explore the stratum protocol a bit, but a bit confused. for starters I sent some curl requests, but don't seem to get any response |
| 16:27:19 | afk11: | I notice that it has some element of long-polling in there, so curious what I'm missing |
| 16:34:40 | fluffypony: | afk11: #bitcoin-dev |
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| 19:43:45 | [1]LeMiner: | [1]LeMiner is now known as LeMiner |
| 20:03:43 | lmatteis: | are there any academics around doing research in bitcoin? i'm looking for venues, journals, conferences that deal with bitcoin or p2p systems in general |
| 20:04:29 | lmatteis: | i know there's this http://wan.poly.edu/p2p2015/index.html |
| 20:09:32 | lmatteis: | also this http://icdcs-2015.cse.ohio-state.edu/ |
| 20:11:00 | antanst: | lmatteis: also this http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/bitcoin/ |
| 20:11:54 | lmatteis: | are those indepndently published? |
| 20:12:36 | kanzure: | depends on what you mean by published |
| 20:12:53 | antanst: | it seems so... |
| 20:15:58 | lmatteis: | weird how there isn't many conferences on p2p |
| 20:16:34 | kanzure: | p2pfoundation covered a bunch of that, if that's what you're looking for |
| 20:16:48 | lmatteis: | there's just that IEEE one but it's rated fairely bad: http://103.1.187.206/core/668/ |
| 20:16:57 | lmatteis: | C is kind of low |
| 20:17:03 | lmatteis: | kanzure: what do you mean 'they covered'? |
| 20:17:13 | kanzure: | their wiki has a large list of p2p-related conferences |
| 20:17:17 | lmatteis: | i'm looking for peer-reviewed journal/conferences/venus |
| 20:17:21 | lmatteis: | not just published pdf's on a sit |
| 20:17:22 | lmatteis: | *site |
| 20:17:28 | lmatteis: | ah nice link? |
| 20:17:32 | kanzure: | sounds very picky |
| 20:18:29 | lmatteis: | ah perhaps this http://p2pfoundation.net/Category:Conferences |
| 20:31:06 | antanst: | antanst has left #bitcoin-wizards |
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