00:04:47phantomcircuit:dgenr8, sure but in a typical settlement transaction the net amounts are not meaningful to the individuals whose transactions are being netted
00:05:59dgenr8:er, that's my point. the average observer/validator will lack any context or way to connect what's observed in the blockchain to anything they know about (like their own txes)
00:16:08dgenr8:could there be a way to scale, and retain that property? are there ways to impose other tradeoffs preferentially on different parties, and yet still retain all the important properties of bitcoin? can bitcoin become something that is infinitely scalable?
00:20:56Luke-Jr:dgenr8: the validator is not SUPPOSED to know anything about the transaction, other than the change of UTXOs
00:21:08Luke-Jr:which continues to work fine with Lightning at least
01:04:57gandalf_:any thoughts on ethereum?
01:13:47sipa:kanzure: economic activity that relies on validation by a full node?
01:14:02kanzure:go on...
01:14:06sipa:like not shipping goods until incoming payments are validated by it?
01:14:23kanzure:if 10% of all economic activity is going through one node, is that still sufficient.. or what..
01:15:56sipa:right, it's about independent entities basing their economic activity on validation by a self-run full node
01:16:29sipa:or more generally, i guess the degree to which their economic activity is based on trusting data from others
01:18:16kanzure:is it something like "the degree to which their economic activity can survive reorgs and hard forks"?
01:19:28sipa:it's rather... would be affected by hard fork
01:28:27dgenr8:here's a straw man. new permanent publication mechanism which is like the blockchain EXCEPT makes no effort to validate transactions or prevent double-spends. It also supports the definition of tree structures.
01:28:43dgenr8:blockchain now just needs the merkle root.
01:29:31sipa:dgenr8: you just reinvented tree chains :)
01:30:30dgenr8:oh crap. i thought that was N blockchains, all validating and preventing double spends.
01:52:00dgenr8:reviewed treechains. it talks about spending on this or that chain, which is different... I was thinking keep one chain, and go to small (constant-size) blocks that just reference a merkle tree stored elsewhere. all the challenges are in how to create the 'elsewhere' :/
02:06:04dgenr8:a full node would maintain some configurable portion of a global hierarchical structure of all the txes and tx tree definitions, and would need to do some level of validation to prevent spam.
02:09:51dgenr8:oh, it's a DHT I guess... this doesn't work?
02:58:23jgarzik:I lol'd when someone on reddit suggested replacing bitcoin with a sharded DHT
02:58:35jgarzik:going from most sybil resistant to least in 4.5 seconds
02:59:48wallet42:wallet42 is now known as Guest80557
02:59:48wallet421:wallet421 is now known as wallet42
03:07:58Luke-Jr:jgarzik: I lol'd at the guy saying we should stop arguign about block size and just change the price instead.
03:50:07EasyAt_:EasyAt_ is now known as EasyAt
05:25:49wallet42:wallet42 is now known as Guest70405
05:25:49wallet421:wallet421 is now known as wallet42
07:12:54runeks:i support changing the bitcoin price
07:13:34runeks:but i can't find the relevant lines in the source code...
07:14:20runeks:hehe :)
07:39:39wallet421:wallet421 is now known as wallet42
07:56:54c0rw|away:c0rw|away is now known as c0rw1n
08:05:18wilhelm.freenode.net:topic is: This channel is not about short-term Bitcoin development | http://bitcoin.ninja/ | This channel is logged. | For logs and more information, visit http://bitcoin.ninja
08:05:18wilhelm.freenode.net:Users on #bitcoin-wizards: andy-logbot oleganza arubi wallet42 gill3s frankenmint hktud0 Mably b_lumenkraft p15_ p15x HostFat priidu GGuyZ [7] lmacken metamarc Dr-G2 fanquake Relos d1ggy_ ebfull airbreather_1 Starduster jmcn_ hulkhogan_ Transisto2 sparetire_ PRab shesek Tiraspol damethos sparetire hashtag_ grandmaster sadoshi SubCreative spinza Logicwax elastoma mkarrer DougieBot5000 felipelalli GAit face justanotheruser maaku cluckj waxwing miisly andytoshi bosma
08:05:18wilhelm.freenode.net:Users on #bitcoin-wizards: grubles LeMiner gielbier btcdrak stonecoldpat bedeho Adlai helo veox fluffypony uumdbmd _whitelogger Fistful_of_Coins yoleaux prodatalab Jaamg dansmith_btc melvster dc17523be3 Emcy binaryatrocity se3000 dgenr8 rustyn deego theymos Cory sipa scoria Eliel azariah isis NeatBasis kyuupichan gnusha amiller kanzure harrow leakypat xabbix HM iddo michagogo harrigan_ Madars mariorz epscy vonzipper catcow a5m0_ smooth dignork ttttemp_ pollux-bts runeks
08:05:18wilhelm.freenode.net:Users on #bitcoin-wizards: coryfields CryptoGoon Sqt poggy jbenet cfields platinuum adams__ livegnik sneak K1773R Alanius nsh tromp petertodd brand0 c0rw1n yorick koshii ir2ivps5 jgarzik OneFixt richardus luny Krellan null_radix PaulCapestany nephyrin phedny so davout phantomcircuit afdudley cdecker jonasschnelli pigeons Luke-Jr SwedFTP BananaLotus guruvan Meeh optimator bliljerk101 lnovy ajweiss wiz nanotube dardasaba__ forrestv artifexd mappum yrashk mikolalysenko
08:05:18wilhelm.freenode.net:Users on #bitcoin-wizards: Muis [d__d] lmatteis warren gmaxwell weex_ Xzibit17 GreenIsMyPepper sdaftuar eric roasbeef throughnothing s1w CryptOprah huseby dasource mm_1 Taek morcos crescendo nickler Zouppen EasyAt Iriez wumpus merlincorey [ace] sturles berndj comboy jaromil catlasshrugged_ Apocalyptic cryptowest_ Graet indolering Keefe larraboj ryan-c jessepollak gribble mr_burdell d9b4bef9 starsoccer kumavis otoburb midnightmagic BlueMatt TD-Linux wizkid057 Anduck
08:05:18wilhelm.freenode.net:Users on #bitcoin-wizards: luigi1111 gavinandresen AdrianG espes__ warptangent STRML sl01 kinlo gwillen Oizopower BrainOverfl0w @ChanServ
09:32:04fluffypony:runeks: lines 507 - 513
09:32:17fluffypony:just make sure not to use flaot
12:07:17wallet421:wallet421 is now known as wallet42
12:11:35wallet421:wallet421 is now known as wallet42
14:20:13dEBRUYNE_:dEBRUYNE_ is now known as dEBRUYNE
16:06:07dgenr8:jgarzik: this may be dense, but i need help seeing why. a specialized DHT would not replace bitcoin, but rather implement the permanent detail-transaction portion of the block storage database, and serve as a shared mempool. nodes such as miners could still cache local copies of whatever they needed.
16:21:46dgenr8:you might need two 'indexes' corresponding to mapTx (to support tx lookup) and mapNextTx (to support partitioning validation). I don't know if this is possible with a DHT, other than by having two DHT's.
16:22:00dgenr8:Since inputs can be combined arbitrarily, a node might need to request history from the network to fully validate txes it is partailly responsible for. maybe this could be mitigated by limiting the # of inputs.
16:23:21PRab_:PRab_ is now known as PRab
16:26:37afk11:hi all. I'm trying explore the stratum protocol a bit, but a bit confused. for starters I sent some curl requests, but don't seem to get any response
16:27:19afk11:I notice that it has some element of long-polling in there, so curious what I'm missing
16:34:40fluffypony:afk11: #bitcoin-dev
16:56:37c0rw1n:c0rw1n is now known as c0rw|afk
16:58:33PRab_:PRab_ is now known as PRab
19:19:53c0rw|afk:c0rw|afk is now known as c0rw1n
19:43:41heath_:heath_ is now known as heath
19:43:45[1]LeMiner:[1]LeMiner is now known as LeMiner
20:03:43lmatteis:are there any academics around doing research in bitcoin? i'm looking for venues, journals, conferences that deal with bitcoin or p2p systems in general
20:04:29lmatteis:i know there's this http://wan.poly.edu/p2p2015/index.html
20:09:32lmatteis:also this http://icdcs-2015.cse.ohio-state.edu/
20:11:00antanst:lmatteis: also this http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/bitcoin/
20:11:54lmatteis:are those indepndently published?
20:12:36kanzure:depends on what you mean by published
20:12:53antanst:it seems so...
20:15:58lmatteis:weird how there isn't many conferences on p2p
20:16:34kanzure:p2pfoundation covered a bunch of that, if that's what you're looking for
20:16:48lmatteis:there's just that IEEE one but it's rated fairely bad:
20:16:57lmatteis:C is kind of low
20:17:03lmatteis:kanzure: what do you mean 'they covered'?
20:17:13kanzure:their wiki has a large list of p2p-related conferences
20:17:17lmatteis:i'm looking for peer-reviewed journal/conferences/venus
20:17:21lmatteis:not just published pdf's on a sit
20:17:28lmatteis:ah nice link?
20:17:32kanzure:sounds very picky
20:18:29lmatteis:ah perhaps this http://p2pfoundation.net/Category:Conferences
20:31:06antanst:antanst has left #bitcoin-wizards
20:44:41CryptoGoon:CryptoGoon is now known as CamelGoon
20:45:01CamelGoon:CamelGoon is now known as TrollLite
20:45:09TrollLite:TrollLite is now known as GoonLite
20:45:13GoonLite:GoonLite is now known as CryptoGoon
21:53:47[1]LeMiner:[1]LeMiner is now known as LeMiner
23:41:21c0rw1n:c0rw1n is now known as c0rw|sleep