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10:29:38CodeShark:bramc, that author keeps on saying that O(2^(log^a n)) is more general than poly(n)...but aren't they essentially the same thing?
10:30:09CodeShark:oh, I guess he's gone :)
10:31:06CodeShark:I guess that question goes out to anyone else who might know an answer: how is O(2^(log^a n)) more general than O(a^n) ?
10:31:17CodeShark:err, I mean O(n^a)
10:32:37CodeShark:oh, nm :p
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10:50:51sipa_:what is log^a
10:51:01sipa_:(log n)^a ?
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18:02:10nsh:hmm, kanzure [or anyone], did this paper come up before? http://www.hit.bme.hu/~buttyan/courses/BMEVIHIM219/2009/Brands.Untraceable_off-line_cash.1993.pdf
18:02:29nsh:. Incorporating the property of untraceability of payments into off-line electronic cash systems has turned out to be no easy matter. Two key concepts have been proposed in order to attain the same level of security against double-spending as can be trivially attained in systems with full traceability of payments. The first of these, one-show blind signatures, ensures traceability of double-spenders after the fact. The realizations of this conce
18:02:29nsh:pt that have been proposed unfortunately require either a great sacrifice in efficiency or seem to have questionable security, if not both. The second concept, wallets with observers, guarantees prior restraint of double-spending, while still offering traceability of double-spenders after the fact in case tamper-resistance is compromised. No realization of this concept has yet been proposed in literature, which is a serious problem. It seems tha
18:02:31nsh:t the known cash systems cannot be extended to this important setting without significantly worsening ...
18:05:38kanzure:nsh: only these,
18:07:39nsh:isis[?] / someone has it in this library: https://github.com/isislovecruft/library/tree/master/cryptography%20%26%20mathematics/cryptocurrencies
18:08:16nsh:'Add Brands' canonic e-cash design paper.'
18:08:30nsh:but no-one else seems to have cited it in relation to bitcoin, afaict
18:09:06nsh:belay that, https://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar?q=bitcoin&btnG=&hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&sciodt=0%2C5&cites=6825807548228841601&scipsc=1
18:09:53nsh:this would be a nice review paper, were it not being hoarded by science-haters springer: http://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-319-19713-5_36
18:11:46kanzure:.title http://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-319-19713-5_36
18:11:47yoleaux:Non-conventional Digital Signatures and Their Implementations—A Review - Springer
18:28:31akrmn:sipa: For the subchains thing, I've been thinking more about it and I have some ideas to resolve your concerns, but I need more time to fully think about it. Also, gmaxwell said that extension blocks can be argued to be strictly greater than increasing the blocksize. Also, there's the miner decentralization benefits (even Peter Todd agrees). So I think there are some important applications. Give me a week, maybe I'll have more ideas.
18:29:01akrmn:sipa: In the meantime, I would like to know what your vision is for scaling Bitcoin and how will it address censorship resistance and miner decentralization?
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20:15:09warren:https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev Everyone please subscribe to the new list, it opens after 9pm UTC.
20:19:27isis:that is my library, yes.
20:20:48isis:brands' work can sometimes be hard to obtain copies of, not to mention that brands' wasn't shy about patenting every whim that floated through his head.
20:23:39nsh:* nsh nods
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23:04:49phantomcircuit:warren, can you send out a test message so people will know that they're subscribed to the correct list?
23:05:06sipa:he's sent a bunch of test mails
23:05:08sipa:others too
23:05:54phantomcircuit:guess im not subscribed correctly..
23:12:14kanzure:git history and light cones http://yarchive.net/comp/linux/git_bisect.html
23:13:57nsh:whoever maintains mailman ironically seems to keep not getting the memo about it no longer being 1992 and asking for passwords so you can send them back in plaintext is maybe not a great idea
23:14:24kanzure:it's not really a password it's more like a textbox where you type random insults
23:15:20nsh:[random insults which are stored against your permanent record in XKEYSTORE until the heat death of Utah]
23:17:20rusty2:rusty2 has left #bitcoin-wizards
23:28:03phantomcircuit:nsh, given utah heat death is continuously imminent
23:29:21nsh:* nsh smiles
23:29:35nsh:i think they figured out how to stop everything turning into fire
23:29:40nsh:for the moment, anyway
23:48:14bramc:After thinking about it some more, I think that practically any attempt to query what the transaction rate on recent blocks were is fraught with danger
23:49:02bramc:Miners can artificially bump up that value with self-payments, which can massively inflate the price if wallets follow it
23:49:54bramc:The only really safe thing is for a wallet to make their first payment by rising up from a small starting value, then each subsequent payment take their last successful value and use some fraction of that as a starting point
23:53:02nsh:why would wallets want to use a measure of transaction volume in making decisions in any case? missed something...
23:53:18nsh:oh, for fee estimation
23:56:59leakypat:bramc doesn't that mean waiting to see if it got confirmed before raising the fee?
23:57:23bramc:leakypat, Yeah you raise the fee for each minted block which it didn't get accepted to
23:57:37bramc:nsh, Yeah I'm talking about fee estimation
23:57:48nsh:* nsh nods
23:57:52leakypat:Right, but that could be hours waiting around and bumping fees
23:58:22nsh:is it not possible to offer variable fee and let miners undercut each other?
23:58:34nsh:not easily at present, i think
23:59:30nsh:some way to recoup a percentage of a high fee offer to ensure rapid confirmation subsequent to mining would be ideal i guess