00:22:31ThinThread:why the block height isnt in the block header?
00:25:29phantomcircuit:ThinThread, why would it need to be in the block header?
01:58:26CodeShark:so in the end, blockchains are just going to be dispute resolution mechanisms - sort of like a fix to the prisoner's dilemma, making cooperation the equilibrium strategy
02:00:24CodeShark:and a second potential application for them is censorship resistance...but this one's a little less clear to me
02:22:17leakypat:CodeShark: is this in reference to the hyperledger thing ?
02:22:36CodeShark:leakypat: not specifically...
02:22:44CodeShark:leakypat: just a general observation :p
02:23:23leakypat:The word blockchain is one of those catch on words
02:24:08leakypat:It's now used to loosely describe anything that uses distributed data and crypto of some kind
03:09:52Eliel:yes, it's becoming somewhat too broad of a word to be useful in the general sense it's being used.
03:15:15leakypat:Funny to watch Blythe Mathers talk about this
03:15:28leakypat:"Make no mistake, this will change everything"
03:16:23leakypat:The tech has been around and possible for years, it is a case of banks collaborating and building a system they all use
03:18:47CodeShark:distributed ledgers aren't the exact same thing as a trustless dispute resolution mechanism
03:19:23CodeShark:although they surely are ultimately a building block
03:20:44leakypat:It's probably a lot better business this stuff, for profit *now*
03:20:56leakypat:* leakypat imagines the consultancy fees
03:21:56leakypat:It's annoying how certain people position it as some competitor to Bitcoin
03:42:06CodeShark:the real breakthroughs right now seem to be happening in the area of how to construct proofs over these ledgers with minimal need for validation
03:42:53CodeShark:the default behavior is to assume cooperation - but if there's a dispute, both parties do worse than had they cooperated
03:44:28CodeShark:and the proofs are based on interactive cryptographic protocols
03:44:51CodeShark:or noninteractive...in the case of the need to take the dispute global
03:45:31CodeShark:but that's usually only a last resort
03:47:53CodeShark:the key is to try to make it so that the need to validate is the exception rather than the rule...or at least can be done using nondeterministic sampling
03:48:10CodeShark:or preferably both :)
03:51:30moa:the blockchain is judge, jury and executioner in a smart contract
03:52:15CodeShark:right, moa...but it's best not to even have to take the case to court :)
03:52:36moa:which is the default behavioour in a civilised society
03:54:38moa:smart contracts are probably more properly referred to as executable contracts
03:55:11zooko:Dumb, but executable.
03:55:20moa:otherwise what if there was smart smart contract, like and executable contract that was well-written?
03:55:34zooko:"smart" means (a) drains your battery faster, (b) doesn't work sometimes for random reasons, (c) is loyal to a large remote corporation instead of to you.
03:56:10moa:clever smart contracts?
03:59:44maaku:maaku is now known as Guest21521
04:11:34CodeShark:(a) and (b) could be mitigated somewhat with good engineering, but (c) is still a problem :p
04:15:53CodeShark:it's already hard enough with the current EULA crap we have to read - imagine the average joe having to analyze code :p
04:17:31zooko:CodeShark: the average joe needs a bot on his side.
04:17:50CodeShark:sooner or later you run into either complexity or undecidability issues
04:18:03CodeShark:at least if P != NP :p
04:18:12zooko:Um, I'm skeptical.
04:18:22CodeShark:there's always ways to fool a bot
04:18:35zooko:The bot that fights for the user doesn't need to statically analyze the code.
04:18:41zooko:(Note: can we call it Tron, please?)
04:20:39moa:wonder if 'Tron' or "I fight for the user" are trademarked?
04:24:58moa:apparently it is ... google search shows up a 1989 email exchange to a usenet newsgroup asking/answering that question !
04:26:56CodeShark:smart attorneybots?
04:27:54CodeShark:attorneybot contracts?
04:29:09moa:expert witness = oracles
04:29:10CodeShark:this is definitely going to get very interesting :)
04:45:17zooko:By the way, Tron was Alan Kay.
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06:22:16leakypat:So 3 big pools have come out against the XT hard fork now...
06:34:47leakypat:Oops, misleading headline in coin telegraph , my bad
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15:19:47waxwing:so is the idea of a commitment-as-pubkey (which can then be signed against, conditionally) new to confidential transactions? is there anything like that before?
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23:22:47TheButterZone:$3 million to $1250. is there seriously not $3 million laying around somewhere to scoop it up and drop a 8329 BTC wall at $1251
23:23:42cosmo:on one exchange?
23:26:34cosmo:why would they want to buy 3m BTC now at $1000/ea, when they could slowly accumulate the same amount @ $250/ea over a period of a year or two?
23:27:26TheButterZone:nobody's accumulating, they're just mini-pumping and dumping
23:27:40TheButterZone:while miners dump constantly
23:31:09nsh:(off-topic here)