| 00:22:31 | ThinThread: | why the block height isnt in the block header? |
| 00:25:29 | phantomcircuit: | ThinThread, why would it need to be in the block header? |
| 01:58:26 | CodeShark: | so in the end, blockchains are just going to be dispute resolution mechanisms - sort of like a fix to the prisoner's dilemma, making cooperation the equilibrium strategy |
| 02:00:24 | CodeShark: | and a second potential application for them is censorship resistance...but this one's a little less clear to me |
| 02:22:17 | leakypat: | CodeShark: is this in reference to the hyperledger thing ? |
| 02:22:36 | CodeShark: | leakypat: not specifically... |
| 02:22:44 | CodeShark: | leakypat: just a general observation :p |
| 02:23:23 | leakypat: | The word blockchain is one of those catch on words |
| 02:24:08 | leakypat: | It's now used to loosely describe anything that uses distributed data and crypto of some kind |
| 03:09:52 | Eliel: | yes, it's becoming somewhat too broad of a word to be useful in the general sense it's being used. |
| 03:15:15 | leakypat: | Funny to watch Blythe Mathers talk about this |
| 03:15:28 | leakypat: | "Make no mistake, this will change everything" |
| 03:16:23 | leakypat: | The tech has been around and possible for years, it is a case of banks collaborating and building a system they all use |
| 03:18:27 | leakypat: | *Masters |
| 03:18:47 | CodeShark: | distributed ledgers aren't the exact same thing as a trustless dispute resolution mechanism |
| 03:19:23 | CodeShark: | although they surely are ultimately a building block |
| 03:20:44 | leakypat: | It's probably a lot better business this stuff, for profit *now* |
| 03:20:56 | leakypat: | * leakypat imagines the consultancy fees |
| 03:21:56 | leakypat: | It's annoying how certain people position it as some competitor to Bitcoin |
| 03:42:06 | CodeShark: | the real breakthroughs right now seem to be happening in the area of how to construct proofs over these ledgers with minimal need for validation |
| 03:42:53 | CodeShark: | the default behavior is to assume cooperation - but if there's a dispute, both parties do worse than had they cooperated |
| 03:44:28 | CodeShark: | and the proofs are based on interactive cryptographic protocols |
| 03:44:51 | CodeShark: | or noninteractive...in the case of the need to take the dispute global |
| 03:45:31 | CodeShark: | but that's usually only a last resort |
| 03:47:53 | CodeShark: | the key is to try to make it so that the need to validate is the exception rather than the rule...or at least can be done using nondeterministic sampling |
| 03:48:10 | CodeShark: | or preferably both :) |
| 03:51:30 | moa: | the blockchain is judge, jury and executioner in a smart contract |
| 03:52:15 | CodeShark: | right, moa...but it's best not to even have to take the case to court :) |
| 03:52:36 | moa: | which is the default behavioour in a civilised society |
| 03:54:38 | moa: | smart contracts are probably more properly referred to as executable contracts |
| 03:55:11 | zooko: | Dumb, but executable. |
| 03:55:20 | moa: | otherwise what if there was smart smart contract, like and executable contract that was well-written? |
| 03:55:34 | zooko: | "smart" means (a) drains your battery faster, (b) doesn't work sometimes for random reasons, (c) is loyal to a large remote corporation instead of to you. |
| 03:55:44 | moa: | right |
| 03:56:10 | moa: | clever smart contracts? |
| 03:59:44 | maaku: | maaku is now known as Guest21521 |
| 04:11:34 | CodeShark: | (a) and (b) could be mitigated somewhat with good engineering, but (c) is still a problem :p |
| 04:15:53 | CodeShark: | it's already hard enough with the current EULA crap we have to read - imagine the average joe having to analyze code :p |
| 04:17:31 | zooko: | CodeShark: the average joe needs a bot on his side. |
| 04:17:50 | CodeShark: | sooner or later you run into either complexity or undecidability issues |
| 04:18:03 | CodeShark: | at least if P != NP :p |
| 04:18:12 | zooko: | Um, I'm skeptical. |
| 04:18:22 | CodeShark: | there's always ways to fool a bot |
| 04:18:35 | zooko: | The bot that fights for the user doesn't need to statically analyze the code. |
| 04:18:41 | zooko: | (Note: can we call it Tron, please?) |
| 04:18:45 | CodeShark: | lol |
| 04:20:39 | moa: | wonder if 'Tron' or "I fight for the user" are trademarked? |
| 04:24:58 | moa: | apparently it is ... google search shows up a 1989 email exchange to a usenet newsgroup asking/answering that question ! |
| 04:26:56 | CodeShark: | smart attorneybots? |
| 04:27:54 | CodeShark: | attorneybot contracts? |
| 04:29:09 | moa: | expert witness = oracles |
| 04:29:10 | CodeShark: | this is definitely going to get very interesting :) |
| 04:45:17 | zooko: | By the way, Tron was Alan Kay. |
| 05:52:42 | Guest21521: | Guest21521 is now known as maaku |
| 06:22:16 | leakypat: | So 3 big pools have come out against the XT hard fork now... |
| 06:34:47 | leakypat: | Oops, misleading headline in coin telegraph , my bad |
| 07:46:29 | bosma: | bosma is now known as yolofxtato |
| 07:46:35 | yolofxtato: | yolofxtato is now known as bosma |
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| 15:19:47 | waxwing: | so is the idea of a commitment-as-pubkey (which can then be signed against, conditionally) new to confidential transactions? is there anything like that before? |
| 15:33:31 | jps_: | jps_ is now known as jps |
| 15:56:05 | jps_: | jps_ is now known as jps |
| 17:08:36 | c0rw|zZz: | c0rw|zZz is now known as c0rw1n |
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| 23:22:47 | TheButterZone: | $3 million to $1250. is there seriously not $3 million laying around somewhere to scoop it up and drop a 8329 BTC wall at $1251 |
| 23:23:42 | cosmo: | on one exchange? |
| 23:24:03 | TheButterZone: | stamp |
| 23:25:00 | cosmo: | paaaatience |
| 23:26:34 | cosmo: | why would they want to buy 3m BTC now at $1000/ea, when they could slowly accumulate the same amount @ $250/ea over a period of a year or two? |
| 23:27:26 | TheButterZone: | nobody's accumulating, they're just mini-pumping and dumping |
| 23:27:40 | TheButterZone: | while miners dump constantly |
| 23:31:09 | nsh: | (off-topic here) |