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08:36:30c0rw|zZz:c0rw|zZz is now known as c0rw1n
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19:45:11fluffypony:science undergoing a 51% attack :-P
20:51:01jps_:jps_ is now known as jps
21:57:18leakypat:Was thinking about full nodes and the fact that an ever decreasing number of people use always on PCs at home anymore
21:58:39leakypat:People use laptops instead and so node is on/off line depending on what they are doing
21:59:20leakypat:Apple managed to sell those Timemachine boxes a few years back as a wifi station / backup solution
22:00:21leakypat:Being able to buy a stand-alone full node in non intrusive hardware box might be a solution
22:02:50phantomcircuit:leakypat, unfortunately people doing that are consistently producing underpowered systems
22:03:16kanzure:isn't that just increasing the attack surface for at-home consumer electronics and wallet storage stuff
22:04:22phantomcircuit:amusingly none of them would work with > 1MB blocks within about 6 months
22:04:27leakypat:kanzure: you mean interns of back-dooming the hardware device?
22:04:43kanzure:a backdoor installed by an intern? yea that too
22:05:33leakypat:Same issue with everyone running nodes on cloud services though
22:06:19phantomcircuit:leakypat, i think you can build something that would be reasonable as an always on system for about $500
22:06:33phantomcircuit:if the system isn't truly always on though the cost goes up rapidly
22:06:52phantomcircuit:since the performance of the system is now 1:1 correlated with how long it takes after startup for it to be useful
22:07:13phantomcircuit:afaict people are targetting $100 or so
22:07:13leakypat:phantomcircuit: something eg a business accepting Bitcoin can install and forget about?
22:07:16phantomcircuit:which isn't going to work
22:07:29phantomcircuit:leakypat, as long as it's actually online all the time
22:07:30phantomcircuit:it's fine
22:07:37kanzure:leakypat: so far i can't think of any reasons why you should install that equipment (especially if you are not using the self-validation benefits)
22:07:44phantomcircuit:if they turn it off at night or whatever then it's going to get more expensive fastish
22:07:46leakypat:Yeah $100 sounds right :(
22:08:08leakypat:kanzure: incentives to run one?
22:08:49leakypat:kanzure: I'm thinking about packaging with a wallet business package or home "money" system
22:09:13kanzure:ah okay, so something left of "apocalypse banking kit"
22:09:16kanzure:er, right of
22:10:06phantomcircuit:leakypat, you cant even buy a decent processor for $100
22:10:36kanzure:would be nice to have an "apocalypse banking kit" that did coinjoin and lightning network hub hubbing stuff
22:10:50phantomcircuit:$100 gets you a very slow arm soc on a board with usb ports, sdcard, and ethernet
22:11:03kanzure:or torrenting-for-fee stuff and tor-for-fee stuff (was the pay4tor stuff safe?)
22:11:05phantomcircuit:with an sdcard that is only big enough for maybe 6 months
22:11:40phantomcircuit:i guess if those had pruning and were actually online 24x7 maybe they could work
22:13:02leakypat:Or some way to add remote storage?
22:14:19kanzure:well, i think those problems are still up in the air regarding sybil and fairness
22:18:20leakypat:Or some scheme where every computer science university department runs an always on full node
22:19:24leakypat:I guess the real problem is incentive to run one :/
22:19:37phantomcircuit:leakypat, that's more or less useless
22:19:58phantomcircuit:there's more than enough bandwidth to push the blockchain to peers
22:20:17phantomcircuit:which is the only thing that cs dept would be useufl for
22:21:17leakypat:Yeah, I see
22:22:17kanzure:and if there was some monetary incentive then there might be policy reasons against operating that node in an official capacity by those departments anyway
22:34:28leakypat:The decline in the number of nodes... What do you see as the profile of the person who stopped running the node?
22:35:18leakypat:Eg. Enthusiast who got tired of running it on his pc and just stuck an SPV wallet on his phone instead ?
22:35:54leakypat:The general churn of Bitcoin users so the wallet options are not full nodes anymore for new entrants?
23:08:32fluffypony:OT: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/greek-bailout-fund
23:22:20phantomcircuit:leakypat, there was a period in which anybody who showed up would be told to run multibit
23:22:24phantomcircuit:that was a mistake
23:22:55leakypat:Multibit is SPV ?
23:23:33leakypat:I see it is
23:35:21jps_:jps_ is now known as jps