00:07:58CodeShark:SPV is one of those design problem things to look out for in future projects ;)
00:11:22CodeShark:prunability and aligned incentives to trustlessly outsource succinct proofs are required for anything like that to be practical
00:12:53CodeShark:merkle trees for blocks was a good start...but not a good end :)
00:16:07CodeShark:I should say to trustlessly have succinct proofs produced...not necessarily "outsourced"...too many connotations
00:17:03CodeShark:in certain contexts at least one of the parties clearly has an interest to compute and store proofs relevant to their contracts
00:17:40CodeShark:but if there's a dispute you still have your loaded gun
00:17:53CodeShark:even if the bullet isn't free :)
00:22:24CodeShark:in the worst of cases you take your case global and win (if you're right)...more costly than settling directly, but the uncooperative party can be held responsible for a good portion if not all of that extra cost.
00:25:19CodeShark:a justice system that relies on cryptographic signatures and witnesses for authorization...and whose interpretation of the law comes down to running computer programs
00:26:08CodeShark:it all relies on strong consensus at the top level, though...this is still a problem
02:33:18c0rw1n:c0rw1n is now known as c0rw|zZz
02:53:04leakypat:So, back to my point about lack of nodes, is it fair to say that centralized and SPV wallets have been created with a view to there being some kind of large scale adoption and these non "Power users" needing something quick and easy to use
02:53:47leakypat:The adoption hasn't happened and so the result has been "power users" have ditched their nodes and are using centralized and SPV solutions because it's easy
02:54:53leakypat:So, a few years ago, all the dudes at my meetup would have been running full nodes, now instead they use breadwallet to buy their beers
02:55:41CodeShark:having each peer validating every single beer purchase on the entire planet doesn't seem like a good idea :p
02:55:54leakypat:Depends on the beer
02:56:56leakypat:My point being is that centralized wallets (like mine) and SPV wallets have basically disincentive zed power users from running full nodes
02:57:35CodeShark:people who know what they're doing generally keep around a full node or two
02:57:55CodeShark:but that's not most :p
02:58:36leakypat:Yeah, exactly, it's like 20% of Bitcoin enthusiasts or something
02:59:21CodeShark:on the other hand many of these cases are high use high volume cases
02:59:53CodeShark:but still, we're hitting a scalability wall :p
02:59:55CodeShark:it's inevitable
03:01:28leakypat:What cases are high use high volume?
03:01:43CodeShark:nvm :p
03:25:25kanzure:i really doubt it's 20% of all bitcoin enthusiasts. it would have to be a much lower percentage to match other observed measureguesses.
03:31:45a5m0_:a5m0_ is now known as a5m0
03:46:07moa:it's a long september effect .... a smaller and smaller percentage of new users will be full-node 'material'
03:47:40moa:like second law of adoption: the level derp will always increase
04:09:11leakypat:kanzure: you think lower? By enthusiasts I mean meetup regulars etc.
08:05:17wilhelm.freenode.net:topic is: This channel is is for discussing theoretical ideas with regard to cryptocurrencies, not about short-term Bitcoin development | http://bitcoin.ninja/ | This channel is logged. | For logs and more information, visit http://bitcoin.ninja
08:05:17wilhelm.freenode.net:Users on #bitcoin-wizards: andy-logbot orperelman Aquentin ThomasV priidu drwin Mably fkhan berndj dEBRUYNE gregeh p15x_ d1ggy mjerr gill3s go1111111 the_last TheSeven Emcy_ bedeho2 Dr-G2 jps moa shesek jmcn_ mkarrer se3000 tromp_ justanotherusr spinza sparetire_ Luke-Jr CodeShark dc17523be3 Taek MatrixBridge gribble Tenhi LeMiner HM Tiraspol goregrind humd1ng3r isis Tebbo alferz qawap BigBitz superobserver MoALTz airbreather Iriez sundance leakypat wiz binaryatrocity_
08:05:17wilhelm.freenode.net:Users on #bitcoin-wizards: OneFixt sneak gmaxwell amiller thrasher` gielbier PaulCapestany melvster btcdrak SwedFTP bosma c0rw|zZz SDCDev Starduster nsh AlexStraunoff Graet veox maaku akrmn UllrSkis K1773R Alanius sparetire luny mengine devrandom sdaftuar narwh4l adam3us cdecker badmofo Madars roybadami waxwing lnovy MRL-Relay theymos stonecoldpat epscy dgenr8 mountaingoat pollux-bts Jaamg rustyn forrestv espes gnusha Cory tucenaber bliljerk101 elastoma ThinThread
08:05:17wilhelm.freenode.net:Users on #bitcoin-wizards: jonasschnelli huseby null_radix catcow adams__ rasengan cfields phantomcircuit kanzure TD-Linux GreenIsMyPepper richardus sl01 michagogo otoburb ttttemp kinlo nephyrin` Krellan vonzipper larraboj_ mariorz coryfields_ optimator stevenroose BlueMatt eric afdudley warptangent ryan-c crescendo prosodyContext mappum nickler_ jbenet kyuupichan livegnik pigeons davout Fistful_of_Coins mikolalysenko fluffypony BananaLotus Logicwax scoria andytoshi
08:05:17wilhelm.freenode.net:Users on #bitcoin-wizards: STRML jouke jaromil fenn nanotube mr_burdell indolering BrainOverfl0w [ace] catlasshrugged throughnothing poggy guruvan dignork yoleaux gavinandresen Anduck helo grubles heath roasbeef ggreer starsoccer Muis Xzibit17 comboy petertodd wumpus a5m0 jessepollak dansmith_ [d__d] sturles midnightmagic merlincorey warren azariah_ jrayhawk Meeh_ mm_1 koshii _whitelogger dasource jcorgan bsm117532 gwillen lclc wizkid057 ajweiss so s1w yrashk CryptoGoon
08:05:17wilhelm.freenode.net:Users on #bitcoin-wizards: artifexd runeks kumavis platinuum yorick Apocalyptic iddo smooth weex harrow harrigan brand0 Eliel xabbix morcos AdrianG @ChanServ
08:58:45LeMiner2:LeMiner2 is now known as LeMiner
10:45:55c0rw|zZz:c0rw|zZz is now known as c0rw1n
11:51:41kanzure:http://blogs.aws.amazon.com/security/post/TxCKZM94ST1S6Y/Introducing-s2n-a-New-Open-Source-TLS-Implementation
11:51:45kanzure:.title https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9804349
11:51:45yoleaux:AWS s2n – open source TLS implementation in 6000 lines of code | Hacker News
12:03:40airbreather_1:airbreather_1 is now known as airbreather
14:07:57hearn_:hearn_ is now known as hearn
14:51:21binaryatrocity_:binaryatrocity_ is now known as binaryatrocity
15:15:20DanielBTC_:DanielBTC_ is now known as DanielBTC
16:03:30cosmo:cosmo has left #bitcoin-wizards
16:24:03DanielBTC:DanielBTC is now known as Guest56755
17:10:12kanzure:halp i got stuck http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3axnc3/this_is_the_definition_of_fud_how_to_subvert/csmfqpp?context=1
17:16:53gmaxwell:kanzure: okay
17:19:03kanzure:hmm if the original signatures are still necessary then there's not much space saved
17:20:53gmaxwell:wtf. of course they aren't.
17:21:07gmaxwell:how the heck dould you have extracted that from my message??
17:33:53maaku:maaku is now known as Guest27737
17:38:56kanzure:there's no details either way on that front in your message i think; you pass the inputs to signature verification, but that's the same whether there is a missing intermediate history regardless.
17:39:23kanzure:(more broadly, i am just engaging in the discussion here; i don't think it's a problem with your reply on reddit)
17:43:55gmaxwell:kanzure: I revised it some. :)
19:14:58kanzure:"Not unlike things in Bitcoin today, but the signatures are combined with O(1) size."
19:15:08kanzure:ah yes that is much more clear
19:15:15kanzure:also: O(1) is very very exciting
21:51:46node9876543:node9876543 has left #bitcoin-wizards
22:26:52roybadam1:roybadam1 is now known as roybadami
22:39:22akrmn:ok multisig command works. I generated my own public keys, because obviously you can't go from address to public key
23:25:16solaire:hello
23:38:52CodeArtix:hello