00:07:58CodeShark:SPV is one of those design problem things to look out for in future projects ;)
00:11:22CodeShark:prunability and aligned incentives to trustlessly outsource succinct proofs are required for anything like that to be practical
00:12:53CodeShark:merkle trees for blocks was a good start...but not a good end :)
00:16:07CodeShark:I should say to trustlessly have succinct proofs produced...not necessarily "outsourced"...too many connotations
00:17:03CodeShark:in certain contexts at least one of the parties clearly has an interest to compute and store proofs relevant to their contracts
00:17:40CodeShark:but if there's a dispute you still have your loaded gun
00:17:53CodeShark:even if the bullet isn't free :)
00:22:24CodeShark:in the worst of cases you take your case global and win (if you're right)...more costly than settling directly, but the uncooperative party can be held responsible for a good portion if not all of that extra cost.
00:25:19CodeShark:a justice system that relies on cryptographic signatures and witnesses for authorization...and whose interpretation of the law comes down to running computer programs
00:26:08CodeShark:it all relies on strong consensus at the top level, though...this is still a problem
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02:53:04leakypat:So, back to my point about lack of nodes, is it fair to say that centralized and SPV wallets have been created with a view to there being some kind of large scale adoption and these non "Power users" needing something quick and easy to use
02:53:47leakypat:The adoption hasn't happened and so the result has been "power users" have ditched their nodes and are using centralized and SPV solutions because it's easy
02:54:53leakypat:So, a few years ago, all the dudes at my meetup would have been running full nodes, now instead they use breadwallet to buy their beers
02:55:41CodeShark:having each peer validating every single beer purchase on the entire planet doesn't seem like a good idea :p
02:55:54leakypat:Depends on the beer
02:56:56leakypat:My point being is that centralized wallets (like mine) and SPV wallets have basically disincentive zed power users from running full nodes
02:57:35CodeShark:people who know what they're doing generally keep around a full node or two
02:57:55CodeShark:but that's not most :p
02:58:36leakypat:Yeah, exactly, it's like 20% of Bitcoin enthusiasts or something
02:59:21CodeShark:on the other hand many of these cases are high use high volume cases
02:59:53CodeShark:but still, we're hitting a scalability wall :p
02:59:55CodeShark:it's inevitable
03:01:28leakypat:What cases are high use high volume?
03:01:43CodeShark:nvm :p
03:25:25kanzure:i really doubt it's 20% of all bitcoin enthusiasts. it would have to be a much lower percentage to match other observed measureguesses.
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03:46:07moa:it's a long september effect .... a smaller and smaller percentage of new users will be full-node 'material'
03:47:40moa:like second law of adoption: the level derp will always increase
04:09:11leakypat:kanzure: you think lower? By enthusiasts I mean meetup regulars etc.
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11:51:45kanzure:.title https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9804349
11:51:45yoleaux:AWS s2n – open source TLS implementation in 6000 lines of code | Hacker News
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17:10:12kanzure:halp i got stuck http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3axnc3/this_is_the_definition_of_fud_how_to_subvert/csmfqpp?context=1
17:16:53gmaxwell:kanzure: okay
17:19:03kanzure:hmm if the original signatures are still necessary then there's not much space saved
17:20:53gmaxwell:wtf. of course they aren't.
17:21:07gmaxwell:how the heck dould you have extracted that from my message??
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17:38:56kanzure:there's no details either way on that front in your message i think; you pass the inputs to signature verification, but that's the same whether there is a missing intermediate history regardless.
17:39:23kanzure:(more broadly, i am just engaging in the discussion here; i don't think it's a problem with your reply on reddit)
17:43:55gmaxwell:kanzure: I revised it some. :)
19:14:58kanzure:"Not unlike things in Bitcoin today, but the signatures are combined with O(1) size."
19:15:08kanzure:ah yes that is much more clear
19:15:15kanzure:also: O(1) is very very exciting
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22:39:22akrmn:ok multisig command works. I generated my own public keys, because obviously you can't go from address to public key